Players have run out of ideas

[sinker]

Exactly what I was trying to suggest earlier. Have them play a part in the already shifting white court politics. Hell, if he's as emotionally compromised and unbalanced as you suggest then it's possible that the head of the house wants him dead for stirring up so much public attention. Ooh, that would be awesome (though entirely out of character for the head of the house to personally involve themselves) if the head actually showed up personally and wound up tying the party more tightly into the house politics.

[Lanir]

If I wanted an NPC to show up and ask the right questions in the scenario you described I'd probably make it a fae linked somehow to Melody's parents (I'm assuming that neither of them would work for this themselves). Maybe an ally who's just trying to keep up to date and thought they'd better figure out what Melody was doing lately so she didn't become a wildcard and upset their applecart while they were plotting something. This would give them a reason to be curious about the current problems and ask interesting questions from a rather different perspective. But it wouldn't give them a reason to waltz in and fix everything and they could easily claim disinterest or lack of free time to implement a plan if the PCs push them to intervene. Something like "Dear, I came to you because you're a potential ally like your mother/father. What kind of ally would you prove to be if you start out by begging me to clean up your messes?"

You could probably do the same with a character loosely tied into anyone's background if the fae angle doesn't quite work for you. To use a similar angle you'd need the NPC to be a fairly political character who routinely plots well outside of the PC's normal sphere of influence. The parents (or whatever other tie-in you choose) don't have to be political themselves, just have a positive history with this NPC.

[toturi]

Though... he might show up to the artists trial and start slamming the lawyer and defense witnesses with despair, or any particularly sympathetic seeming jurors.  And I'd let the party know: "The case against you seems flimsy, but with Antonio smashing these people emotionally, it seems like they might convict you."

Depending on the theme of the city, the courts may really be a Temple to Justice. And/or the judge could be a True Believer in Justice. And the vampire faces a Threshold against his using Incite Emotion on the jurors/witnesses.

[BumblingBear]

Depending on the theme of the city, the courts may really be a Temple to Justice. And/or the judge could be a True Believer in Justice. And the vampire faces a Threshold against his using Incite Emotion on the jurors/witnesses.

Yeah... I would think that depending on how "in the know" a city is, there may be unique defenses like that.  There may also be something going on behind the scenes.

One of the themes from the casefiles is that servants of the White God work behind the scenes.  People may not always see what they're doing, but that doesn't mean they're not doing /something/.

I find this thread interesting.  My group is a bunch of bloodthirsty savages who like to kill everything I throw at them so far.  I'm half afraid that if I introduce a plot device like Mab, somebody will still attack her.

[evileeyore]

If I wanted an NPC to show up and ask the right questions in the scenario you described I'd probably make it a fae linked somehow to Melody's parents (I'm assuming that neither of them would work for this themselves). Maybe an ally who's just trying to keep up to date and thought they'd better figure out what Melody was doing lately so she didn't become a wildcard and upset their applecart while they were plotting something. This would give them a reason to be curious about the current problems and ask interesting questions from a rather different perspective. But it wouldn't give them a reason to waltz in and fix everything and they could easily claim disinterest or lack of free time to implement a plan if the PCs push them to intervene. Something like "Dear, I came to you because you're a potential ally like your mother/father. What kind of ally would you prove to be if you start out by begging me to clean up your messes?"

Nice...   

[Jancarius]

I tend to try and de-emphasize the actions of the White God as much as possible.  I like to make sure it's clear he's just one of many being at that tier of power, the others being the Summer and Winter Mothers, the Goblin King, etc.

The city is our own town, not anything too major, but I do kinda like the idea of a True Believer in Justice being a judge.  

I know some of my players haven't read the Dresden books, but hte majority have, so it frustrates me when none of them think to try stuff like luring a WCV into a threshold area (though I suppose they may think he's just too smart to fall for it).

[BumblingBear]

I tend to try and de-emphasize the actions of the White God as much as possible.  I like to make sure it's clear he's just one of many being at that tier of power, the others being the Summer and Winter Mothers, the Goblin King, etc.

The city is our own town, not anything too major, but I do kinda like the idea of a True Believer in Justice being a judge.  

I know some of my players haven't read the Dresden books, but hte majority have, so it frustrates me when none of them think to try stuff like luring a WCV into a threshold area (though I suppose they may think he's just too smart to fall for it).

Yeah... I have a hard time relating to your players too.  I definitely would have killed him by now.

Hell, I'd have a hard time not killing a regular person who began a smear campaign claiming that I was a pedophile... much less an inhuman monster whom I know for a fact kills people to eat.

At the very least I'd be using my contacts or finding someone who has contacts to find someone else with a beef against the WCV.

I mean, unless this vamp is a wizard too, WCVs are really not all /that/ hard to kill.

[batmanjr]

OOC chat will be the best option.

I'd ask them, "Do you have a plan or are there some pieces of information that you are missing to formulate a plan?  Are you happy with actions being taken against you and the party always reacting?  Will you eventually go on the offensive and deal with this guy....er....vampire?"

I like what another poster put up and that is get out in the open what the expectations are.  If you party knows full well that the NPC's have plans in place and are moving forward, they can either just be wall flowers or they can pick up their dice and play an active "roll" in shaping the group's Dresdenverse.

Having passive PC's would suck since they'd have no chance to ever get ahead.

[Becq]

You mentioned that the party doesn't want to 'just kill him', because that might prompt another round of vengeance.  As a possible alternative (depending on relative power levels, etc) it might be viable for one of the party members to challenge him to a duel.  Or, better yet, to maneuver him (the WCV) into challenging one of the party members (probably one or both of the two that he hates).  This would probably be riskier than a standard fight, but would have the benefit of having the sanction of the Accords, and would shield the party from further recriminations.

Note that (again, depending on power mixes) challenging the WCV might be suicidal, as the WCV would probably pick 'emotions' as their choice of weapons, but if the WCV initiated the challenge, the party would get to choose the weapon...

[noclue]

You mentioned that the party doesn't want to 'just kill him', because that might prompt another round of vengeance. 

Another round of vengeance sounds awesome! You should compel them to kill him

[Jancarius]

The party is at Refresh 7 Skill 28, so I think a straight up fight for any 1 v 1 of them would indeed be a suicide run for that character.  I have been having a chat with a couple of them, pretty much calling them out on being so passive.  I told them they should go to offense, because an immortal vampire has all the time he needs to pick them part as long as they aren't doing anything but reacting to his moves. 

What I would do in the party's situation is use social conflict to separate the mercenaries and Antonio.  The reason the Kincaid-expy is so wary is that 2 of the mercenaries nearly put him in the hospital (in fact, he was taken out the first time, but we discovered we handled grenades wrong so rerolled the combat).  I mean, Antonio has outright killed one of the mercenaries (the paintomancer had obtained some of his hair and was using it to track them), so it shouldn't be that hard for the party to use that to help these guys turn on the WCV.  They just aren't THINKING of it.  Plus, they have a sorceress and the Kincaid-expy whose got a couple grenades, so even if they want to just go in on assault, they can throw enough aoe power in there to down most of the mercs instantly. 

[Roxy Rocket]

Another round of vengeance sounds awesome! You should compel them to kill him

The players sound way too reasonable about this threat. Harry does not respond with a game theory analysis of city politics. He smashes the threat or runs away. This guy is trying to ruin their lives and then kill them. Have them do something cruel and 'public' in supernatural terms. They have to make a Transgression.

Give the sorceress a ritual big enough to tear the demon out of the vampire's mortal soul. If she has to go into NPC territory to make it happen that's the price you pay, kinda like spending a death curse. She can always come back to hassle the party down the road.

[toturi]

It seems to me that the situation has become un-fun for the players. They are looking for a way to neutralise their foe that doesn't allow the GM to use what they did as a plot hook to preserve the status quo or escalate the situation.

[Jancarius]

@Toturi: Yes, that's exactly what the situation is.  They are desperately working to preserve the status quo without leaving a plot hook I can write with later.  Which is annoying at several levels.  One, because imperfect solutions are way more interesting than perfect solutions, and two, the fact that they're treating it like I have them backed into an impossible situation, when rather, it's merely impossible for them to come out smelling roses and dancing with bunnies. 

@Roxy: I don't agree with compelling in any form the sorceress to NPC herself.  One, I don't think the player would take it well (as discussed in another thread, my ex girlfriend is playing the sorceress, and things are especially tender between us at the moment because she is now dating another one of my players).  Two, I would say that compelling someone to NPC themselves is more or less like compelling them to die in most games. 

What the sorceress asked me if she could do was arrange some sort of amplifying field, in which her magic would be stronger than normal, and try and lure the vampire and mercenaries into that to fight.  It seemed like that should be possible, but I didn't know how to set up the mechanics at all.

[tymire]

@Toturi: Yes, that's exactly what the situation is.  They are desperately working to preserve the status quo without leaving a plot hook I can write with later.  Which is annoying at several levels.  One, because imperfect solutions are way more interesting than perfect solutions, and two, the fact that they're treating it like I have them backed into an impossible situation, when rather, it's merely impossible for them to come out smelling roses and dancing with bunnies. 

Lol, sounds exactly what happens in most SR games.  Plan for 2-4 hours in game time.  Then at least 75% of the time someone will screw it up within 15mins of go time.  Think the main problem is that you gave them too much time.  I have found if you don't rush players or put them on a time table this stuff will happen if they are taking it seriously.

What the sorceress asked me if she could do was arrange some sort of amplifying field, in which her magic would be stronger than normal, and try and lure the vampire and mercenaries into that to fight.  It seemed like that should be possible, but I didn't know how to set up the mechanics at all.

If this doesn't scream scene/zone aspect I don't know what does.