Items of Power & Breath Weapon?

[citadel97501]

Hello all,

I was just working out a character for a possible low power game, and I was wondering if anyone else has tried to use an item of power (ring or something), to make breath weapon efficient enough on the refresh cost to use?

Primarily my only issue was that you really should use a different skill, for the attack such as Discipline but that seems like its almost giving you a free stunt?

[Tedronai]

The issue of which skill is most appropriate is mostly a matter of fluff.  Consider having the IoP conjure a ball of fire, which the character then must throw, themselves, rather than producing a jet of flame a la 'Fuego' that propels itself to the target.
For most characters, though, having Breath Weapon function off Discipline rather than Weapons is not likely to cause balance issues.  The only folks with apex Discipline generally being practitioners, have more potent options available.

[Haru]

I think it is pretty efficient as it is, even without attaching it to an IoP.

If you want to change it's skill to Discipline, I would ask, why you are doing it. Do you have a spellcaster character, that is specialised in combat magic, and you want that power to reflect that? In that case, the ring should probably also be a focus item, to reflect that, and discipline is fair game. If you just want to get a powerup, I would ask why does it have to be a breath weapon ring?

But all that aside:
You can link breath weapon to almost any item and change the appropriate skill accordingly. A ranged weapon of some sort would make the most sense, of course. A magic bow that automatically has an arrow made of fire, once you pull it back. Or a gun, if you want it more modern. Or even a slingshot, if you want. Other things might include a worn glass eye (where discipline or maybe even alertness would be more suited to shoot), a fossilized insect (using survival to attack via a swarm of bees) or an enchanted boxing glove (using fists at range). And of course much more that I can not think of right now.

[citadel97501]

I think it is pretty efficient as it is, even without attaching it to an IoP.

If you want to change it's skill to Discipline, I would ask, why you are doing it. Do you have a spellcaster character, that is specialised in combat magic, and you want that power to reflect that? In that case, the ring should probably also be a focus item, to reflect that, and discipline is fair game. If you just want to get a powerup, I would ask why does it have to be a breath weapon ring?

Yes, the character I had in mind was a spell caster, and I had planned on the ring being an offensive focus as well.  I was just concerned that allowing a skill that has so many other uses for a spell caster was questionable.   

[Haru]

Well in that case, from a story point of view you could say that he really isn't using a magic item but he is using his own magic to attack, so he would do so like he would cast any normal attack spell. The difference is, that he figured out how to create a ring, that he can use to shield himself from the mental stress he would normally receive when casting. However, This only works for pretty low power spells, specifically weapon:2 attacks.

Mechanically it is still an IoP with breath weapon.

Unless of course, the ring IS given to him by an outside force, in that case he IS using a magic item and magic that is not his. But still, if the item is designed to work by applied will (Discipline), then that is, how it works.

[admiralducksauce]

What about if it's a cyborg with eye-lasers?  What skill would you say is the most appropriate for targeting Breath Weapon when it's in the guise of eye-lasers?

I'm serious here; I have a PC in a game who's a cyborg with Modular Abilities to represent the Crysis/Deus Ex rerouting power/nanite boost type of situational enhancement, and he's gone for eyebeams several times.  I've been at a loss for a better skill so I told him use Weapons, like the book says, but if anyone has a better suggestion...

[Belial666]

It's eyebeams, so use Alertness. It's his sight that he focuses and being able to accurately judge distance and direction just from seeing something (a requirement for using eyebeams IMHO) is harder than most people think.

[admiralducksauce]

It's eyebeams, so use Alertness. It's his sight that he focuses and being able to accurately judge distance and direction just from seeing something (a requirement for using eyebeams IMHO) is harder than most people think.

Seems reasonable to me.  I'll float that past my player and see if he wants to juggle his skill picks; he really doesn't need Weapons if he can use Alertness.

To answer the OP, I have not seen Breath Weapon used on an IoP, but as mentioned, I've seen it used with Modular Abilities.  Breath Weapons so far also seem to get used more creatively for maneuvers than, say, a plain old shotgun might.  That might simply be the player in question trying to justify the expense, however. 

[sinker]

My first instinct when I see this kind of thing is to just say no. Seems to me like a spellcaster trying to circumvent the mental stress of casting as cheaply as they possibly can and that irks me for several reasons. Firstly I've never as a spellcaster come against a situation when I needed the extra spells unless it was dramatically appropriate (in which case having the extra spells would have made the story a lot less so) nor have I seen it happen to any spellcaster I've played with. Secondly mental stress is one of the rare few limitations on an incredibly powerful ability set. I don't see the need to make spellcasters that much more powerful. Finally I could see that same thing being modeled better with enchanted items. The spellcaster already has a system to cast low(er) level spells for little cost.

That having been said if it fits your story and everyone at the table is for it then there's no reason why I shouldn't say go for it and have fun. As for the skill transfer I see that as the fluff. Whether your character throws shards of bone or has eyebeams or breathes fire or directs power through an item it's all breath weapon. You should use the skill that's appropriate to the task.

[devonapple]

My first instinct when I see this kind of thing is to just say no. Seems to me like a spellcaster trying to circumvent the mental stress of casting as cheaply as they possibly can

Well, kinda, but so are spellcasters in other games who want wands of fireball.

[Sanctaphrax]

It seems to me that a wizard would almost always be better off with another level of Refinement. If they want to spend refresh on a gun that uses Discipline, more power to them.

I'd actually allow a ring that shot weapon 2 fireballs as a piece of non-IoP gear. It's just a reflavoured pistol, in my mind. But it would have to use Weapons or Guns to hit.

I'd charge an extra refresh point for using Alertness to aim a Breath Weapon, as per the rules for stunts. Being able to fight with a non-combat skill is worth it, I think.

[Tedronai]

I'd charge an extra refresh point for using Alertness to aim a Breath Weapon, as per the rules for stunts. Being able to fight with a non-combat skill is worth it, I think.

That does assume, of course, that you first have an appropriate cost for the base power, which is, I gather, rather disputed around these parts.

[Becq]

Can Breath Weapon use Discipline in place of Weapons?  To my understanding, this is absolutely forbidden!  Trying to do so will make you a pariah the world over.  However, I've taken the liberty to write up a totally new and unique power that you might find of use.  I feel that it is balanced, but you will need to have it OK'd in your game:

Breath WeaponMystic Blast [–2]
Description: You’re able to spitemanate or otherwise throw some sort of self-generated mystical projectile over a short distance.
Note: You’ll need to lock down this breath weaponmystic blast to a single type of effect—e.g., acid, fire, lightning, etc.—when you take this ability.
Skills Affected: WeaponsDiscipline (this is treated as a thrown weaponmagical attack).
Effects:
Breath WeaponMystic Blast. You can attack targets up to one zone away from you with your breath weaponmystic blast. Roll WeaponsDiscipline; if you hit, you deal +2 physical stress (essentially, this is a thrownmagical Weapon:2 that you can self-generate). As with any weapon, you might be able to use your breathblast to perform combat maneuvers if you can justify it, setting temporary aspects on the scene or on your opponent.

For those of you who still think my first paragraph was serious, a disclaimer: You should be imagining small flocks of 's swarming over it.

As an aside, keep in mind that any time you get a discount on a power, for example by using an IoP, you are telling your GM that you expect to lose the use of that IoP on occasion.  Since you are required to have an aspect linked to the IoP, you will be be compensated by a Fate point.

[Sanctaphrax]

I don't really like powers like that. More options = more power. So letting people make powers like that makes characters in general stronger.

[Tedronai]

Again, see my post immediately prior.


For lack of a better example...It takes a heck of a lot of 3.x fighter variations to equal the core CoDzilla.