Are Offensive Blocks Offensive?

[sinker]

I know the question seems a bit redundant, but hang with me for a second. The only way this matters of course is with wizard specializations and foci. Someone mentioned this in another thread and it got me thinking about a wizard putting all of his or her specializations and foci into offense and then using the offensive block to essentially defend (I.E. it prevents someone from attacking you) which seems a little unsportsmanlike...

Anyway, what do you all think? Are all blocks defensive by nature in that they prevent attacks from getting to you, or are they split into offensive and defensive categories determined by who they target?

[Sanctaphrax]

This is and should remain up to each individual GM/group. I don't think that we should try to arrive at a ruling here.

I allow offensive blocks, although I don't especially like them.

PS: There should be a thread listing all the potential problems with spellcasting.

[sinker]

Sorry, I suppose I wasn't completely clear. The question is would an offensive block be considered offensive or defensive for the purpose of specializations and foci. Mostly I'm just wondering what everybody's opinion is. This hasn't come up at my table, but it's a place where I can see potential abuse and so I thought it might be a good thing to mull over here.

[Sanctaphrax]

I understood. I meant, I allow people to use offensive foci on that sort of block.

[stitchy1503]

I personally would allow it if the block was actually offensive, like the Orbius example in the book.

[BumblingBear]

I understood. I meant, I allow people to use offensive foci on that sort of block.

I would too.

IMHO, it's pretty easy to see when someone is trying to circumvent the system.  For instance, a few points into foci that do what is being described is one thing.  7 points of refinement dumped into offensive foci that are used to block all the time are quite another.

That said, an offensive block is not as versatile as a defensive block.  It's just not.  So someone offensive blocking is still rather gimped in defense.

[Tedronai]

To clarify this situation, and several others (such as friendly maneuvers), I re-name the specializations from 'offensive' to 'detrimental' and from 'defensive' to 'beneficial'

[Belial666]

How would that change affect the following types of spells?


1a) A veil (perception block) that blinds your sole enemy so he can't see to attack you.
1b) The same veil that blinds your enemy so he can't see your allies shooting him in the back.

2a) A veil making an ally invisible so an enemy cannot see them to hit them.
2b) The same veil used to make an ally invisible so they can shoot an enemy in the back without being seen.

3) A darkness spell (perception block) on the entire room when you have Cloak of Shadows or The Sight open and thus you can see through it while both allies and enemies cannot.

[Tedronai]

1 a and b) detrimental to the target
2 a and b) beneficial to the target
3) detrimental to most people/things, you just happen to be immune

[InFerrumVeritas]

To clarify this situation, and several others (such as friendly maneuvers), I re-name the specializations from 'offensive' to 'detrimental' and from 'defensive' to 'beneficial'

I really like this idea.  It saves some semantic issues, if nothing else.

[sinker]

To clarify this situation, and several others (such as friendly maneuvers), I re-name the specializations from 'offensive' to 'detrimental' and from 'defensive' to 'beneficial'

I've just realized the issue I have with the whole concept, or at least it's finally concrete in my head now. Here's the issue. I create a block, say I describe it as a kinetic buffering field, so that it slows attacks down. However let's say I decide to surround my enemies with it. I'm preventing one type of action so it can apply to multiple targets and to be safe I'll even spend 2 shifts to make it zone wide. It still prevents them from attacking me and my allies, but now it's a offensive (or detrimental) block. I can now throw all of my foci and specializations into offense and still have no issue defending. For that matter I can still veil, maneuver or anything else provided I target an enemy and not an ally. I think that's the part where this gets hazy.

[BumblingBear]

I've just realized the issue I have with the whole concept, or at least it's finally concrete in my head now. Here's the issue. I create a block, say I describe it as a kinetic buffering field, so that it slows attacks down. However let's say I decide to surround my enemies with it. I'm preventing one type of action so it can apply to multiple targets and to be safe I'll even spend 2 shifts to make it zone wide. It still prevents them from attacking me and my allies, but now it's a offensive (or detrimental) block. I can now throw all of my foci and specializations into offense and still have no issue defending. For that matter I can still veil, maneuver or anything else provided I target an enemy and not an ally. I think that's the part where this gets hazy.

To be fair, it's going to happen.  The magic system is only limited by the scope and power of a player's imagination.  I don't think it's that big of a deal.  A zone offensive block works the same as a zone defensive block.  It takes 2 extra shifts of power, and lasts a finite amount of time.

I also think another way to deal with this is to enforce the rules in the book for foci.  The size of the object dictates how many points of focus an object can have, and carrying around two staffs everywhere is going to get looks and comments for any PC...

[Belial666]

Unless you make one a staff and the other a piece of clothing like robes or a cloak. As Elaine pointed out to Harry, phallic shape is not mandatory.

[BumblingBear]

Unless you make one a staff and the other a piece of clothing like robes or a cloak. As Elaine pointed out to Harry, phallic shape is not mandatory.

True...

But still, just like the munchkin artificer build we like throw around on the forums a lot, that amount of power in items is going to get attention from the supernatural community and inhuman creatures in particular.

ALL POWER COMES WITH A PRICE seems to be the recurring theme/aspect of the series and the RPG.  I think that regardless of what a player chooses to do, make, play as, etc, as long as the GM remembers that aspect of play, everything will work out.

[toturi]

ALL POWER COMES WITH A PRICE is probably a recurring theme only due to Harry's THE TEMPTATION OF POWER being his trouble. Frankly, in those stories in DF that do not feature Harry Dresden as the protagonist, it doesn't come up.

In fact, when the spotlight is on other characters, I feel that POWER'S LOW LOW PRICE seems to be more appropriate.