Author Topic: Beast Change  (Read 8173 times)

Offline EdgeOfDreams

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Beast Change
« on: April 07, 2011, 07:02:32 PM »
Beast Change is a pretty awesome power, mainly because it lets you rearrange your skills, allowing for a "social" mode and "combat" mode.

Has anyone played a character that used Beast Change but wasn't a were-form?  How about a Minor Talent whose only power is Beast Change?  I imagine they'd take on a beastial appearance when they change but not actually become an animal.  Maybe flavor it as being tied to an animal spirit but not being a true shapeshifter?

Offline MijRai

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 07:08:57 PM »
I've seen a minotaur Beast Change, and a few other things. The main thing to remember about Beast Change is that it is a shapeshifting skill. You physically change your body for these things. Some people have trouble remembering that.
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Offline Malckuss

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2011, 07:16:43 PM »
Beast Change is a pretty awesome power, mainly because it lets you rearrange your skills, allowing for a "social" mode and "combat" mode.

Has anyone played a character that used Beast Change but wasn't a were-form?  How about a Minor Talent whose only power is Beast Change?  I imagine they'd take on a beastial appearance when they change but not actually become an animal.  Maybe flavor it as being tied to an animal spirit but not being a true shapeshifter?

Rename and reflavor; Maybe this is akin to the mental shifting that Lycanthropes go through, or similar to the Shifters from Eberron.

Offline Ala Alba

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2011, 07:20:24 PM »
Or perhaps it's possession by a being with a different set of skills and knowledge.

Or perhaps it's simply the best way you can think of for representing some kind of magical skill enhancement(with, obviously, certain drawbacks).

Although by this point, I think I'm talking less about Beast Change and more about the Skill Shuffle trapping of it.

Offline Kerberos

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 09:07:52 AM »
Or perhaps it's possession by a being with a different set of skills and knowledge.

Or perhaps it's simply the best way you can think of for representing some kind of magical skill enhancement(with, obviously, certain drawbacks).

Although by this point, I think I'm talking less about Beast Change and more about the Skill Shuffle trapping of it.
Exactly, obviously one can invent house rule as one wished, but beast change involves an actual change into an actual animal. That's more than a flavour thing, since changing into an actual beast has significant drawbacks like robing you of your ability to speak, possibly to cast magic and it tends to attract unfavorable attention at mundane cocktail parties. Beast change without the actual beast change is a far more powerful ability that effectively increases the number of skill points available to the character by a huge margin. At -1 refresh it's ludicrously overpowered compared to other powers and stunts that in some way gives you access to additional skill points and there'd be virtually no reason for any character not to take it.

Offline deathwombat

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 10:53:31 AM »
Go reread the beast change rules again
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Offline toturi

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 11:30:22 AM »
Exactly, obviously one can invent house rule as one wished, but beast change involves an actual change into an actual animal. That's more than a flavour thing, since changing into an actual beast has significant drawbacks like robing you of your ability to speak, possibly to cast magic and it tends to attract unfavorable attention at mundane cocktail parties. Beast change without the actual beast change is a far more powerful ability that effectively increases the number of skill points available to the character by a huge margin. At -1 refresh it's ludicrously overpowered compared to other powers and stunts that in some way gives you access to additional skill points and there'd be virtually no reason for any character not to take it.
YS p79 Do lycantropes physically change their form?
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Offline Kerberos

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 11:48:59 AM »
Quote from: deathwombat
Go reread the beast change rules again
How about you just say whatever it is you think I missed?
YS p79 Do lycantropes physically change their form?
Nope, but then they don't have beast change. At least not in the PDF, I don't have the actual book nearby.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 12:04:58 PM by Kerberos »

Offline toturi

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 02:41:39 PM »
How about you just say whatever it is you think I missed? Nope, but then they don't have beast change. At least not in the PDF, I don't have the actual book nearby.
No, they do not, I was pointing out one example of how Shapeshifting can happen solely in the mind. But I realise that the example isn't quite relevant to your post I quoted.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:44:14 PM by toturi »
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Offline ways and means

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 03:15:45 PM »
Exactly, obviously one can invent house rule as one wished, but beast change involves an actual change into an actual animal. That's more than a flavour thing, since changing into an actual beast has significant drawbacks like robing you of your ability to speak, possibly to cast magic and it tends to attract unfavorable attention at mundane cocktail parties. Beast change without the actual beast change is a far more powerful ability that effectively increases the number of skill points available to the character by a huge margin. At -1 refresh it's ludicrously overpowered compared to other powers and stunts that in some way gives you access to additional skill points and there'd be virtually no reason for any character not to take it.

Loup Garou have beast change but only someone with a very limited understanding of what a wolf is would call a Loup Garou a wolf beyond semantics. That would be like saying a minatour is a bull because it has horns though given the use of beast change for a Loup it would be reasonable to use beast change for any transformation into something monsterous or beastly including for hilarity sake the beast from beauty and the beast.
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Offline Kerberos

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 03:38:41 PM »
Loup Garou have beast change but only someone with a very limited understanding of what a wolf is would call a Loup Garou a wolf beyond semantics. That would be like saying a minatour is a bull because it has horns though given the use of beast change for a Loup it would be reasonable to use beast change for any transformation into something monsterous or beastly including for hilarity sake the beast from beauty and the beast.
My point was mainly about trying to use it purely for for the skill-change without any actual shape-change. Personally I think using it for something with functional hands and/or speech is questionable, but a minotaur isn't that unreasonable, a pure skill-swap with no shape-change or changing into another human IMO is.

Offline Delmorian

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 03:48:33 PM »
Beast change that is not lycanthropic...

Dr. Jeklle & Mr. Hyde from the LXG movie and comic book.

Bruce Banner & HULK

Naga's from D&D, aren't there some that can take a mostly human form?

hmmm... any one consider a Naga character in Dresden files? Any idea how I would set that up?
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Offline Ala Alba

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 03:52:03 PM »
Exactly, obviously one can invent house rule as one wished, but beast change involves an actual change into an actual animal. That's more than a flavour thing, since changing into an actual beast has significant drawbacks like robing you of your ability to speak, possibly to cast magic and it tends to attract unfavorable attention at mundane cocktail parties. Beast change without the actual beast change is a far more powerful ability that effectively increases the number of skill points available to the character by a huge margin. At -1 refresh it's ludicrously overpowered compared to other powers and stunts that in some way gives you access to additional skill points and there'd be virtually no reason for any character not to take it.

My point was mainly about trying to use it purely for for the skill-change without any actual shape-change. Personally I think using it for something with functional hands and/or speech is questionable, but a minotaur isn't that unreasonable, a pure skill-swap with no shape-change or changing into another human IMO is.

Were-Parrot/Crow/Raven (speech).

Were-Monkey/Chimp/Gorrilla (sign language/writing/opposable thumbs).

I can't imagine why a wizard would not be able to cast magic after shapeshifting, given that shapeshifting is itself magic. Furthermore, unlike, say, Living Dead, there are no social penalties for Beast Change(the changes are "only ... cosmetic").

Finally, True Shapeshifting gives you the ability to use infinitely many skillsets without requiring the beast part of it. The fact that you can rearrange your skills however you want, whenever you want, is more than enough to justify the increase from -1 to -4.

Offline EdgeOfDreams

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2011, 05:13:16 PM »
My point was mainly about trying to use it purely for for the skill-change without any actual shape-change. Personally I think using it for something with functional hands and/or speech is questionable, but a minotaur isn't that unreasonable, a pure skill-swap with no shape-change or changing into another human IMO is.

I pretty much agree with this, and it's supported by the rule that your social and mental skills can't be higher when in beast-form.  It's clearly intended to put you in a form that is more animalistic, but that doesn't have to be an actual animal.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Beast Change
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2011, 05:36:06 PM »
I pretty much agree with this, and it's supported by the rule that your social and mental skills can't be higher when in beast-form.  It's clearly intended to put you in a form that is more animalistic, but that doesn't have to be an actual animal.

I am sort of breaking that rule with a WereRaven, since Deceit is the skill for picking pockets/stealing things, and I may have given a character a slightly higher Deceit for that reason. Maybe they just need a +2 stunt instead (one more Refresh down, but more legal I imagine), or simply give it a suitable trapping in Echoes of the Beast. I'll have to look at it.

Also, Lycanthropes don't have Beast Change. They have Echoes of the Beast, as well as Human Form (which restricts access to other toughness/speed/etc. powers), but no skill shuffling is actually going on.
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