What would an Exorcism do to a White Court Vampire?

[Katarn]

Disclaimer (to my campaign players): I don't plan to use this in-game, this is more a hypothetical what-if I may tie-in to NPCs.


What would happen if a cleric attempted an exorcism on a Raith or Skavis?  The White Courtiers have their "Demons", but if this worked in curing them one of the books would've mentioned it.  Thoughts? Theories?

[zenten]

In my game it would kill them, as they're no longer physically human.

You could do it to a White Court Virgin in my game though.

[Team8Mum]

Can't help thinking all it would do is make them really really annoyed.

[Papa Gruff]

Can't help thinking all it would do is make them really really annoyed.

Yep! Ain't a daemon from "hell". Team8Mum is right...

[UmbraLux]

What would happen if a cleric attempted an exorcism on a Raith or Skavis?  The White Courtiers have their "Demons", but if this worked in curing them one of the books would've mentioned it.  Thoughts? Theories?

Nothing - except give them a chance to feed on said cleric.   

Seriously.  It's not a 'summoned' demon, it's not necessarily hellish at all.  It is part of the human and native to this plane of existence. 

[Bruce Coulson]

A White Court Virgin could be cured by such a procedure, simply on the grounds that they are making a sincere effort to reject the demon within them.

Once they've killed, however, the deal is made, and a exorcism would have no effect.  (Well, it might amuse or annoy the vampire in question; but it wouldn't cure them.)

Just my 2 cents.

[Richard_Chilton]

I'm in the "no effect" camp.

If it was that easy to drive out vampirism then Susan would have been cured in days while Thomas would spend every night in Justin's loving arms.

Richard

[deathwombat]

Probably make them chuckle

[Viatos]

Disclaimer (to my campaign players): I don't plan to use this in-game, this is more a hypothetical what-if I may tie-in to NPCs.


What would happen if a cleric attempted an exorcism on a Raith or Skavis?  The White Courtiers have their "Demons", but if this worked in curing them one of the books would've mentioned it.  Thoughts? Theories?

Whatever the plot needs to happen. I'm in the "cures Virgins, kills Vampires" camp, but I might also allow it to cure a vampire in exchange for the demon sticking around as a pissed-off Spirit Form'd horror, which would need to be dealt with quickly, as it'd have the power to possess randoms via Domination, jumping hosts whenever it had glutted as deeply as it could on Incite'd Emotion.

[Samael]

Really depends on the resources involved in my mind, and how much effort the PCs were go to to try it out, if its just a "Begone Demon!"  Exorcism of Emily Rose type thing then it fails, but if it were to happen with three knights of the cross and a major true faith priest type in SUPER sanctified holy ground (such as the Vatican/Notre Dame) with the supporting efforts of several monks and days worth of fasting and prep prayer... well to me that would probably work imo, if only because its dramatic and fun and would be a hell of a story arc to set up (convincing people to help, offering favors, acquiring certain Artifacts of Faith that could assist, doing major research on the origins of Wampires, etc) I think it could be the focal point of such an event, of coarse the PCs would have to be besieged by some bad guys while its going down and defend the holy ground as an extended contest to keep the church from being breached and the ritual ruined and killing both the Wampire/priests involved.

[Becq]

I don't think it would have any effect on either vamps or virgins.  Some quotes:

"White Court vampirism is a hereditary condition, passed along when interbreeding with humans, always breeding true."
"They might best be seen as a separate race, able to interbreed with humans (White Court vampires are born, not made—it’s hereditary)."

I see exorcism as intended to address cases in which a demonic being is squatting on the spiritual real estate of somebody else, so to speak.  It would in theory work against a Denarian (though even the weakest Denarian would probably be able to resist any attempt at exorcism that didn't directly involve an archangel or better, which in turn wouldn't happen because it would circumvent the free will decision of the coinbearer).  It wouldn't work against any of the vampire Courts, because their infection (in the case of Red and Black courts) or hereditary genetics (in the case of White) has actually changed/shaped who they are, rather than imposing a demonic copilot on them.

To support this, I would point out that if this worked, there would be no Fellowship of St. Giles, since all of those Red Court Infected would have been long since exorcised back to normal.

[Samael]

Depends on the what it would take, I mean it has shown that Mother Winters Unmaking can undo any enchantment, including the reds infection and likely the bound demon of the white court. Of coarse that is magic on such a level you would need major powers involved for something similar. Which is why I think any such purge would require the major work (see my previous post) and a mandate from On High for an Archangel to do its thing to accomplish it.Thus making it far to expensive or practical to accomplish.

[Tedronai]

Sufficiently complex and powerful (and law-breaking) thaumaturgy can turn a human into a bunny rabbit.  I see no reason why it could not similarly turn a WCV into a human.
The WCV, and more to the point, it's demon, will likely put up a rather more troublesome fight, but Fully Transformative Thaumaturgy doesn't really have hard limits.

[Becq]

Sufficiently complex and powerful (and law-breaking) thaumaturgy can turn a human into a bunny rabbit.  I see no reason why it could not similarly turn a WCV into a human.

If this were the case, then Susan would have long since resumed here formed life, either through a combined effort by Harry and Bob (who were greatly motivated to accomplish the task) or through the contacts of the Fellowship (who were also greatly motivated to find a cure).

Note, by the way, that tansformational magic against a *monster* is not Lawbreaking.  Even if you count an Infected as 'still human', then if such magic were possible you could always let them full transform, then transform them back once they no longer qualified as human.

I would explain away this possibility by saying that the change that made the human into a monster was a spiritual change, and that while transformational magic could give them a human body, everything that mattered would remain vampiric.

[Tedronai]

If this were the case, then Susan would have long since resumed here formed life, either through a combined effort by Harry and Bob (who were greatly motivated to accomplish the task) or through the contacts of the Fellowship (who were also greatly motivated to find a cure).

The obvious answer to that being that Dresden (along with anyone or anything on a comparable power scale) is simply incapable of performing (or conceiving of) a suitably complex and powerful ritual.

Someone on the power scale of Mother Winter, on the other hand is demonstrably capable of workings on such a scale.