Nevernever Travel Dynamics

[devonapple]

Coming up with a definitive set of Nevernever travel rules is almost moot, considering that the fiction leaves it as very plot-sensitive how easy or hard it is to pass through a given Way. That said, have any GMs formulated homebrew rules about how to handle passing through the Dresdenverse's equivalent of the Astral Plane?

I myself have been handling it by the seat of my pants. One Nevernever jaunt dropped the players into a breathable Nevernever "ocean" filled with distant but circling predatory shapes, and alien whalesong - the only objective was simply to escape the authorities, so they just had to end up somewhere else in San Francisco. It was a complete surprise to me when they suggested it (I was anticipating they would buy some time by hexing the emergency vehicle that was there to take away their mindwarped friend before they had a chance to do a counterspell, but they took her into the NN instead).

Another Nevernever trip to meet the Archive on Easter Island was handled as an extended challenge, as they were hounded through the Nevernever by a Summer Court posse (San Francisco is technically "theirs" inasmuch as any city can be claimed by a Fairy Court, and one of the players has a Winter Court artifact).

How have other folks been handling this?
Are you finding that trips to the Nevernever come up on the spur of the moment, or are you fairly good about anticipating and planning for them?
Have you developed an "Encounter Table" of sorts for random NN jaunts?
Have you definitely mapped the different Ways available in your game City?
Are you tracking the rips in the fabric of reality in case opening their own Ways comes back to bite the players?

Edit:
Also, I have been handling opening portals to the Nevernever as a Thaumaturgy effect which the players can usually do without any preparation (the designated Nevernever doorman has Lore +4, and an Enchanted Item which boosts this, so most well-chosen locations are going to have a thin enough barrier for them to open), but I've been letting it happen in an exchange, rather than in minutes, so I've really been running it as Evocation.

Does anyone run Woldwalking as an Evocation effect? Do folks use one or the other depending on circumstances?

[Tedronai]

I can see no reason to limit the opening of Ways to thaumaturgy, given what we've seen of Dresden's methods in such matters, and the following excerpt from YS261:
"Thaumaturgy is a slow art, with the fastest of spells taking a minute or more, and many taking much longer than that."

Dresden's taken more than a few short moments ... what?  Once?

[Haru]

I haven't been to the nevernever yet in a game, so I can't say a lot about that.

About evocation vs. thaumaturgy, I can see both working, and it depends on what you are trying to do. Think about GP, when Harry opens the portal in the hospital. Definitely thaumaturgy, because he keeps it open long enough for him and Michael to escape again. Changes though:

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when he is fighting in erlkings lair, he opens it via evocation

. When he uses it to travel through the nevernever, he probably uses evocation as well, because he only needs it to stay open for a few moments. Ruleswise, I would probably handle it like you did as an extended challenge using lore, because opening the portals is not the interesting part of the challenge, finding the way is. If the characters know the way, you would probably not even have to roll at all.

[devonapple]

Changes though:

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when he is fighting in erlkings lair, he opens it via evocation

But by that time, Harry

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a) is the Winter Knight, with Soulfire, and therefore had two means to do EvoThaum at Evo speed, and b) has his mother's Wayfinder gem, which I take to be an Item of Power that bestowed the Worldwalker power.

One could also make a case that when he was opening NN portals during combat, those were merely special effects for otherwise standard Evo attacks/maneuvers.

I can see no reason to limit the opening of Ways to thaumaturgy, given what we've seen of Dresden's methods in such matters, and the following excerpt from YS261:
"Thaumaturgy is a slow art, with the fastest of spells taking a minute or more, and many taking much longer than that."
Dresden's taken more than a few short moments ... what?  Once?

I know. I'm conflicted about it, and when it does come up, I'm almost handling it like Sponsored Magic, using exchanges instead of minutes to gather power and cast. Most of the time, the players have all that they need, and cast it in one exchange. The one time they didn't, all they needed was a quick Magic Circle to make up the Declaration.

[Tedronai]

About evocation vs. thaumaturgy, I can see both working, and it depends on what you are trying to do. Think about GP, when Harry opens the portal in the hospital. Definitely thaumaturgy, because he keeps it open long enough for him and Michael to escape again.

Except that he definitely doesn't take 'a minute or more' to open that portal, but a mere moment's effort.
In fact, I'll dig up the relevant novel text:

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[the ghost crosses back over to the Neverneve, Harry and Michael assume they've won, then the ghost resumes its assault on the infants]
"Christ preserve," Michael swore.  "Harry, we have to step over."
[talking, debating, arguing, Harry's internal conflict of self-preservation vs chivalrous protection of the innocent]
[Harry reluctantly concedes the point, and calls his staff to himself on a stream of air:]
"All right," I said.  "I'm tearing open a window that will give us five minutes.  Hopefully, my godmother won't have time to find me.  Anything beyond that and we're going to be dead already or back here, in any case."
[more talking, with still nothing that would resemble preparing a spell, gathering power, or anything of the sort]
[finally, something resembling relevant spellcasting:]
"Then I reached out, caught hold of reality in my fingertips, and with an effort of will and a whispered, "Aparturum," tore a hole between this world and the next.

Edit: Thinking about it more, I believe I'll represent attempts to cross over as Harry does, there, as attacks against the Veil, where the veil's strength serves as both defense and stress track.  He manages a mild consequence against the Veil (it's already been weakened across Chicagoland and in that hospital room specifically), which lasts the duration of the following scenes in the Nevernever before 'healing'. (opening the portal is the start of a new scene, the consequence begins recovery immediately, and lasts for one full scene after recovery start, ending at the conclusion of the second scene in the Nevernever)
For Harry's methods in the Court of the Erlking, I'd represent it as a (fragile) maneuver rather than an attack.

[devonapple]

Except that he definitely doesn't take 'a minute or more' to open that portal, but a mere moment's effort.

That sounds pretty convincing. He certainly didn't have anything like Sponsored Magic then. The fabric of reality there was probably thinner than the average barrier, but still. Unless we wanted to adjudicate Worldwalking as EvoThaum, it is probably best to just leave it as Evocation.

And opening larger/longer gates is still an option because Thaumaturgy *can* be used for Evocation effects.