Armored giant?

[Belial666]

Suppose you got a giant that's strong enough to lift and carry around tanks and locomotives. You also got access to a few military vehicles that were all hexed up in a big war and thus unusable. The war is still going on and you need heavy units. Could you use materials from the vehicles to armor the giant? I.e. take a couple dozen tons of tungsten, DU an other really heavy, really tough metals and forge a full plate for your giant that is equivalent to tank armor or more. If the giant could carry a tank (~60 tons) and typical tank armor weighs 30 tons, is it doable? Weapons-wise, a 10-ton wrecking ball or equivalent fused to a heavy-duty I-beam might make a good weapon for a giant.


I am considering the situation for an actual game - armoring up the party tank so my far less tough sorceress can hide behind him or something.

[ways and means]

I presume this is an at least submerged game as you are talking about mythic strength and the giant power -8 I think to create all of this you would need a very high temperature forge, most of the very heavy metals like teflon will probably have a ridiculous melting temperature and unless they were forged into something useful as armour they would be too unwieldy to wear. If you were to making such armour I would count it as armour 5 as tanks can survive rpgs etc, you might be better with a giant sword as a weapon as it would be more controllable than a wrecking ball so wouldn't kill the rest of the team.

[Belial666]

Well, tungsten is all but impossible to melt without high-quality arc or solar furnances due to its melting point of 6192 °F, so I was thinking magic. Given sufficient magical force, it might even be possible to reshape it without melting it. On the other hand, tungsten is usually alloyed in these cases, making the melting temperature of the alloy somewhat lower.


And yes, it is a high refresh game.

[stabbald]

I presume this is an at least submerged game as you are talking about mythic strength and the giant power -8 I think to create all of this you would need a very high temperature forge, most of the very heavy metals like teflon will probably have a ridiculous melting temperature and unless they were forged into something useful as armour they would be too unwieldy to wear. If you were to making such armour I would count it as armour 5 as tanks can survive rpgs etc, you might be better with a giant sword as a weapon as it would be more controllable than a wrecking ball so wouldn't kill the rest of the team.

A lot of a tanks durability is due to shaping and sub layers. I wouldn't put it anywhere past Armor: 3 unless the armor is extremely high tech. It would also be extremely unwieldy and I'd give it an aspect to represent that.

[crusher_bob]

Given that 'exceptional quality' 1 handed swords can be weapon 3, I have no real problem with 'exceptional quality' armor being armor 3.  As for how much more armor you could pack on because of your extra strength, I'm not sure.

The main questions I have would be about how you got the armor designed and made.  I don't think modern composite tanks armor can really be reshaped.  It's made up of too many different laminated layers to just be remelted and reforged (or whatever). 

A better bet would probably be whistling up some supernatural power known for it's skill in armor making and have them churn something out. And then, something like armor 4 or 5 might be possible.  Note: It's probably a terrible idea to let armor granted by toughness powers and worn armor stack together.  Either take the best, or the best armor +1.

[stabbald]

Given that 'exceptional quality' 1 handed swords can be weapon 3, I have no real problem with 'exceptional quality' armor being armor 3.  As for how much more armor you could pack on because of your extra strength, I'm not sure.

The main questions I have would be about how you got the armor designed and made.  I don't think modern composite tanks armor can really be reshaped.  It's made up of too many different laminated layers to just be remelted and reforged (or whatever). 

A better bet would probably be whistling up some supernatural power known for it's skill in armor making and have them churn something out. And then, something like armor 4 or 5 might be possible.  Note: It's probably a terrible idea to let armor granted by toughness powers and worn armor stack together.  Either take the best, or the best armor +1.

Yeah, I agree. Magic would be one way of doing it and probably the only way, short of higher a genius inventor for a year with a full blown lab and a huge amount of materials to create a new kind of body armor.

Stacking is a hugely bad idea. If you allow it, your game will become an arms race with enemies constantly grabbing bigger and badder forms of hurt and the characters spending most of their time creating tougher armor.

As for the part about hiding someone behind the tank, this could be extremely hard to do. The more armor the tank character has, the more powerful the weapons the enemies will use, most of the weapons with the stopping power of weapon 5 will have zone effects or will knock the giant off of his feet whether he takes damage or not.

[Belial666]

I am not looking for modern tank armor layer-wise. I am just going to take the superalloy (not the ceramics), melt them and then put them into a 4-inch-thick full plate. That would be the equivalent in both weight and toughness to 10 inches of steel or so. I am picking the really dense metals because of mobility - if the armor is too thick, it is going to be really unwieldy.
In comparison, the heavier tank armors today are equivalent in toughness, at least for the first couple of hits, to 40 inches of steel. That is due to the advanced ceramics and reactive explosive layers they use to dissipate hits from main tank guns. However, that kind of armor degrades rapidly against repeated hits, even from relatively lighter weapons like RPGs


The suggestion of using some supernatural with skill in armor-making is a good idea. Instead of trying to do the armor as a mundane item, we could add a few supernatural goodies into an IoP like the following that the giant in question could spend earned refresh to get, using the whole forging thing as a flavor justification;

Armor of Talos [-1]
Made by magically forging heavy metals taken out of wrecked armored vehicles, this suit of armor is one of the heaviest in the battlefield.
* It is what it is: a 30-ton, giant-sized full plate. It has armor rating 4, can only be worn by giants or similarly-sized humanoids and requires an effective might score of +16 to lift and wear effectively.
* One-time discount
* Superdense material: the armor is made of really dense metals and is better able to absorb physical punishment. +1 armor vs physical attacks, a further +1 vs ranged piercing attacks.
* Energy Resistance: the material of the armor is extremely heat and corrosion resistant and acts as a faraday cage. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs such energy attacks.
* Runes Protection: lots of warding runes have been carved onto the armor, providing minimal resistance to magic. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs direct magical attacks.

[stabbald]

I am not looking for modern tank armor layer-wise. I am just going to take the superalloy (not the ceramics), melt them and then put them into a 4-inch-thick full plate. That would be the equivalent in both weight and toughness to 10 inches of steel or so. I am picking the really dense metals because of mobility - if the armor is too thick, it is going to be really unwieldy.
In comparison, the heavier tank armors today are equivalent in toughness, at least for the first couple of hits, to 40 inches of steel. That is due to the advanced ceramics and reactive explosive layers they use to dissipate hits from main tank guns. However, that kind of armor degrades rapidly against repeated hits, even from relatively lighter weapons like RPGs


The suggestion of using some supernatural with skill in armor-making is a good idea. Instead of trying to do the armor as a mundane item, we could add a few supernatural goodies into an IoP like the following that the giant in question could spend earned refresh to get, using the whole forging thing as a flavor justification;

Armor of Talos [-1]
Made by magically forging heavy metals taken out of wrecked armored vehicles, this suit of armor is one of the heaviest in the battlefield.
* It is what it is: a 30-ton, giant-sized full plate. It has armor rating 4, can only be worn by giants or similarly-sized humanoids and requires an effective might score of +16 to lift and wear effectively.
* One-time discount
* Superdense material: the armor is made of really dense metals and is better able to absorb physical punishment. +1 armor vs physical attacks, a further +1 vs ranged piercing attacks.
* Energy Resistance: the material of the armor is extremely heat and corrosion resistant and acts as a faraday cage. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs such energy attacks.
* Runes Protection: lots of warding runes have been carved onto the armor, providing minimal resistance to magic. The wearer gets +2 to defense rolls vs direct magical attacks.

So this is effecively armor 6 against ranged physical attacks, magic, heat, electricity, acid, AND mental attacks. That seems massively broken for -1 refresh.

Hell, I would argue that Mythic Toughness isn't this good and that comes with a catch as well as costing at minimum three times as much.

[DFJunkie]

Are there rules for shooting at unarmored spots?  I'd say the implicit catch in the armor is that it doesn't cover the wearer's entire body, and can therefore be bypassed.  If that's the case I'd say a -1 isn't that under priced, though I lean towards -2.

[crusher_bob]

I'd try something like:

Armor of Talos [-1]
Made by magically forging heavy metals taken out of wrecked armored vehicles, this suit of armor is one of the heaviest in the battlefield.
* It is what it is: a 30-ton, giant-sized full plate. It has armor rating 4, can only be worn by giants or similarly-sized humanoids and requires an effective might score of +16 to lift and wear effectively.
* One-time discount
* Superdense material: The armor is made out of things designed to specifically defeat modern weapons: against bullets, rocket launchers, grenades, etc add +1 armor
* Stupidly tough: When wearing the armor, you may take an additional minor physical consequence.
* Runes Protection: The aspect related to this armor may be invoked to provide a +3 bonus to defend against magical attacks.

That reduces the stacking bonuses.

[Belial666]

It does not protect against cold, poison, mental attacks (at all) and yes, one could use aspects or the aiming maneuver to aim at weak points or something.

Do note that an IoP armor of the same size that gave mythic toughness penetrated by cold and poison would cost -1 refresh. Similarly, one that gave supernatural speed (and thus +2 to defense rolls along with +4 initiative, 2 free zones of movement and no movement penalties to stealth) is -2 refresh (and speed powers have no catch)

[stabbald]

It does not protect against cold, poison, mental attacks (at all) and yes, one could use aspects or the aiming maneuver to aim at weak points or something.

Do note that an IoP armor of the same size that gave mythic toughness penetrated by cold and poison would cost -1 refresh. Similarly, one that gave supernatural speed (and thus +2 to defense rolls along with +4 initiative, 2 free zones of movement and no movement penalties to stealth) is -2 refresh (and speed powers have no catch)

Sorry for some reason I thought it said mental under the magical attack power.

Are you giving it the full +2 IoP bonus? I would have thought that as it can't be taken away it would only qualify for +1.

[crusher_bob]

Yes, it's statted out as armor 4 (free) 3 stunts and 2 refunded for being an large obvious IoP, so final cost is 1 refresh.

[Sanctaphrax]

It looks as though this is intended for the game I'm GMing, so I should probably give my opinions. Armour 3 or 4 is available, but it won't be universally applicable. IoP armour isn't available without a side plot to justify getting it.

[BumblingBear]

Wow.  That would be sick.

Crudely made tank armor would be at least armor:4.

Wow. 

What an epic fight that would be!

I'm actually getting ideas from this...