Refresh level of the Powers

[kihon]

In the books so far we have Valkyries and Odin.  Now I have to assume (but correct me if I'm wrong) that a Valkyrie should be about equal in Refresh to a senior council member.  Odin should be very much beyond any mortal refresh, so what might that look like?  I know - Plot Level Device.  I was just wondering what you all might be thinking though -- and his powers would be beyond what is listed.  Thoughts?

So we have the Norse Myths represented in the books - what about the Greek or Egyptian myths?  Finally - if the "gods" have a refresh equal to Odin's level (roughly) - what would the elder gods (Titans) look like, refresh wise?

I'm thinking about starting a campaign where there is an on-going thread of a necromancer that keeps trying to free a Titan in order to cause the destruction of the world - or at least a lot of people dead (which he could then control).

Any thoughts would be great.  Thanks in advance.

[DFJunkie]

Now I have to assume (but correct me if I'm wrong) that a Valkyrie should be about equal in Refresh to a senior council member.

Not necessarily.  The only Valkyrie we've met thus far has capabilities roughly equivalent to Harry's (see Herot, where the two are on roughly equal footing).  Changes Spoiler:

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When we run into Odin, he says that his powers have been diminished in recent centuries, so it would stand to reason that his Valkyries came down in the world with him.  This could explain the seeming discrepancy betwen myth-Valkyries and DF-Valkyries.

Odin should be very much beyond any mortal refresh, so what might that look like?

There's really no way to tell, we haven't seen a god throw down with a worthy opponent.  The stats in OW are pretty much pure speculation, and since Odin is a plot device anyway you should just give him whatever powers you deem necessary and thematic.

Finally - if the "gods" have a refresh equal to Odin's level (roughly) - what would the elder gods (Titans) look like, refresh wise?

Well, there's no real way to know.  If DF gods rely on mortal worship for some or all of their power the Titans would probably be in even worse shape than the gods that overthrew them. 

[Larin]

The titans could even be outsiders, locked out by the gods, if that suited your game.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

So we have the Norse Myths represented in the books - what about the Greek or Egyptian myths?

    The greek gods are represented. (Welcome to the jungle and Dead Beat spoilers):

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In "Welcome to the Jungle" (the graphic novel prequel to Storm Front, written by Butcher) Harry faces off against Hecatean Hags (a cult of hags that worship Hecate) who are seeking to perform an ascension ritual (identical to the ritual from Dead Beat). When Harry asks Bob what the ritual would do, Bob replies, "Where do you think Hecate came from?"

    And of course the Celtic myths are represented (in the faerie), but one has to wonder what happened to all the greater deities.
    I've always suspected that the reason the other pantheons don't feature more prominently is that Dresden (and probably Butcher through Dresden) willingly admits that his expertise leans heavily toward western European folklore. Hence, we see a lot of Faeries, Norse monster, and Arthurian references, and fewer Greek, Hindu, Mesopotamian, etc. 

[ways and means]

Gilgamesh is about and the hints point to him being the deity of the ghouls.

[sandchigger]

I don't doubt ya, W&M, but I'm rereading the series and so far (I just began Small Favors) I haven't seen mention of this. Did I just miss a literary reference or am I not yet there?

[ways and means]

To be honest it is just a hint the home language of the ghouls is ancient Sumerian then nation which gilgamesh was meant to be king off also thier is the fact that ghouls share some similarity to enkidou from the epic of gilgmesh which also points in that direction.

[MijRai]

There is a Ghoul in Baltimore who calls himself Gilgamesh, I think...

[Richard_Chilton]

At one point Harry says that the old gods are sleeping...

[Sanctaphrax]

Why would valkyries be at Senior Council level?

[Nyarlathotep5150]

Why would valkyries be at Senior Council level?

   Valkyries, as the legends portray them should be about that powerful. but Dresden Valkyries don't really work that way. The stories, most heavily "Aftermath"

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imply that Valkyries are just normal women, who are imbued with power by Odin. Basically, if you're female, and have sponsored magic: Runes, you're a Valkyrie.

    So, its all a matter of how you portray them. If you're saying they are Demigods of war, then they'd all be at least senior council level... But I wouldn't portray them that way.

[DFJunkie]

Gard at least has a little more than just Sponsored Magic, we know she survived disembowelment more than once.  Someone who's read Herot more recently than I have would know if she's exhibited superhuman levels of strength or speed. 

[Nyarlathotep5150]

    Nothing specific (except for going head to head with a "troll"). But all the same, she's an emissary of Power to Odin, so she has whatever powers he's willing to give her. She's also over a thousand years old, thats a lot of time to build power. but the way they are portrayed in the books, Valkyries aren't much different from faerie knights, and that puts them in the same power range as PCs. 

[Tedronai]

that puts them in the same power range as PCs. 

ie. Anywhere between 'Chest Deep' and 'Scuba Diving'

[DFJunkie]

We know, from Herot, that Gard is at least close to Harry's league.  Refresh wise she might be a few points above or below him, and it's quite possible she has more skill points to throw around given that she's centuries old.