Timing and Recovery Powers

[devonapple]

Last night my Apprentices went up against, among other things, a Ghoul merc. These have Inhuman Strength, Inhuman Speed and Supernatural Recovery (which allows it to shrug off 2 Mild consequences a scene). It had 5 Physical Stress boxes.

Exchange 1 it had to soak up a 9-Stress hit. Since I wanted this to be a challenge, I opted to let the Ghoul to take a Moderate (4-point) Consequence (even though it wasn't a named villain), and checked off its 5th Stress box.

Exchange 2, it had to soak a 7-Stress hit. It could take a Mild (2-point) Consequence, but it would still have been Taken Out because its 5th Stress box was already checked, and 5 stress would have immediately gone over its limit. I did not feel it appropriate to allow a tough, challenging but otherwise nameless Ghoul merc to take a 6-point Consequence, so I had no choice at that point but to let it be Taken Out.

I am thinking that, tactically, I *should* have opted to have the Ghoul soak up 6 Stress by taking a Mild and a Moderate consequence in Exchange 1, cross off its 3rd Stress box, and then have it "Shrug Off" the mild consequence. But I didn't.

I though about letting it simply ignore 2 Stress from the attack in Exchange 2, and counting it as a use of its "Shrug it Off" ability, but I felt that might have been cheating the system. I also thought about letting it take that 6-Stress Consequence.

Any thoughts?

[Tedronai]

Yeah, the ghoul really should have taken the mild consequence in that first exchange.
Just as a general rule, anything with a recovery power should take a mild consequence before any other consequences given the opportunity.

Filling up the entire stress track on the first attack when additional consequences were available to mitigate the attack is just a recipe for a pushover combat.

[zenten]

If there's just one NPC in a fight then I let that NPC take anything but Extreme consequences.

If a character has recovery powers I think using up those minor consequence slots quickly (to heal them) is the best bet, but I haven't run through the math to be sure.

[Ophidimancer]

I am thinking that, tactically, I *should* have opted to have the Ghoul soak up 6 Stress by taking a Mild and a Moderate consequence in Exchange 1, cross off its 3rd Stress box, and then have it "Shrug Off" the mild consequence.

Yes, I think you should, especially if the fight wasn't particularly challenging.

[devonapple]

If there's just one NPC in a fight then I let that NPC take anything but Extreme consequences.

Just FYI, there *were* a lot of mercenary NPCs at the beginning, backing up the Ghoul. Until the grenades happened.

Yes, I think you should, especially if the fight wasn't particularly challenging.

In truth, the players got chewed up pretty badly in that exchange, and a lot of Fate Points wer spilled over this Ghoul. But I still have a lesson to learn about efficient use of Recovery Powers. The combat was tense, even with its brevity.

Just as a general rule, anything with a recovery power should take a mild consequence before any other consequences given the opportunity.

I think that is the lesson I have learned.

[Sanctaphrax]

I'm pretty sure that letting the ghoul shrug off two points of the hit is not legal by the RAW. But the GM is allowed to fudge things a bit if necessary.

It rarely is necessary, though. You could just have given the ghoul a severe consequence. Personally, I add a character's recovery level to their plot significance when determining the default level of consequence for them. After all, a severe consequence is no big deal if you have Mythic Recovery.

[devonapple]

I'm pretty sure that letting the ghoul shrug off two points of the hit is not legal by the RAW. But the GM is allowed to fudge things a bit if necessary.

It rarely is necessary, though. You could just have given the ghoul a severe consequence. Personally, I add a character's recovery level to their plot significance when determining the default level of consequence for them. After all, a severe consequence is no big deal if you have Mythic Recovery.

So I should not worry about "mooks" taking Consequences if they have recovery powers... alright!

[sinker]

I think he's saying the opposite. That his mooks gain additional consequences when they have recovery powers, simply because they are a function of the power. I have played it that way myself.

[mostlyawake]

I think he's saying the opposite. That his mooks gain additional consequences when they have recovery powers, simply because they are a function of the power. I have played it that way myself.

Just chiming in to agree here.  If the mook I am using has, like in your case, the ability to heal 2 mild consequences, then I give him whatever level of mild consequences he'd have (the one normal box, plus any from endurance, stunts, toughness, ect), and then try to take that consequence first, so the recovery power is beneficial.

Another weird way to get screwed up on this is that recovery will clear one mild physical consequence, but that first consequence box is p/m/s.  So it's entirely possible to argue with a ghoul, force him to take a mild social consequence, then get into a fight and he won't be able to use his recovery power because his mild consequence can't be cleared by it. 

Also, BTW, it kind of freaks players out a lot more when you describe every near miss (unless it's with a weapon that would bypass the recovery) as a hit that heals up.  I mean, the players will know they missed as DFRPG is so transparent (you'll be telling them that they rolled too low, in case they want to use a fate point)... but when they say no, chiming in with "Well you actually do hit him, gashing his arm pretty severely, and watch as it heals up instantly" is pretty fun.... and lets the recovery power SEEM cooler and more important than it perhaps mechanically is going to be.

[MAK]

There is also an earlier thread about recovery powers in mooks/nameless NPC's:

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24536.0.html

[devonapple]

I think he's saying the opposite. That his mooks gain additional consequences when they have recovery powers, simply because they are a function of the power. I have played it that way myself.

Ooops! Yes, I got it the first time, but my reply was imprecisely phrased. What I meant to say was that I see that it is fair to allow mooks with Recovery Powers to take more Consequences than other mooks.

[ryanshowseason2]

I usually take it to whatever is necessary for the scene. If they're supposed to be fodder just let them get taken out. If the PCs are laying waste then take it all the way to extreme if necessary. This is a real strength of the system I feel, in others its not as easy to make things easier or harder without fudging things a bit. Its important to show off the abilities of NPCs like that though and show that you hit him but he just healed it immediately.

In one case I used this to my advantage, a PC ran a wood construct through with his sword. I took the mild consequence and declared it healed on the next exchange... With the sword still inside... The PC was then disarmed until he could make a might roll equal to the endurance of the construct to pull it out.

[devonapple]

In one case I used this to my advantage, a PC ran a wood construct through with his sword. I took the mild consequence and declared it healed on the next exchange... With the sword still inside... The PC was then disarmed until he could make a might roll equal to the endurance of the construct to pull it out.

Very clever!