Mental Communication and Attacks.

[Gatts]

Not sure this is the right place to ask, since this isn't strictly a DFRPG question; but after the recent success on a DFRPG game our group decided to shift the Fireborn system, which despite its faults we have a long running game with, to the DFRPG FATE system. It's been a lot of work but it looks like it'll be worth it.

My question though, is of mental communication. My character in the Fireborn game could talk mentally, at any distance, to anyone he'd met. How would such a power work? The basic idea of talking to someone mentally seems like a -1 refresh power, since it's not much different from talking - almost a magical stunt, but the idea of silent communication at any distance seems like it would be a problem. I've had a look at zones, but I'm still not sure how to cost this.

On another note, I was going to add a mental attack to the character, as a line of sight attack that attacked the mental stress bar. How would such an attack be written out, and costed?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Brand]

Telepathy is a fairly tricky issue as it's one of the things that the Laws of Magic.  More specifically, the Third Law - "Never Invade the Thoughts of Another."  The general consensus I've seen says that you'd probably be okay with just sending thoughts and picking up the surface thoughts that were sent back your way, but anything deeper is the sort of thing that could get someone in trouble.

As for cost, it really depends on how powerful you want the mental communication to be.  Talking to someone a zone or so away (basically line of sight) would cost -1 Refresh in my game.  If you want to stretch that distance farther and talk to someone a few states away, I would keep the requirement of having to meet the person first (from your previous game) and push the cost up to -2, at least.  Keep in mind that Incite Emotion (a simple -1 Power) goes up to -2 in cost just to add the ability to affect targets one zone away.

Mental attacks are tricky.  They aren't a lot of ways to affect people mentally in combat.  Going back to Incite Emotion, you can create a mental attack with a range up to one zone away for -3 Refresh.  Such an attack adds +2 stress on a successful hit (basically, it's treated as a Weapon:2).  That's a pretty good guideline to use.  If you eliminate the stress bonus, I could potentially see the cost dropping to -2 Refresh instead.

[Gatts]

Talking to someone a zone or so away (basically line of sight) would cost -1 Refresh in my game.  If you want to stretch that distance farther and talk to someone a few states away, I would keep the requirement of having to meet the person first (from your previous game) and push the cost up to -2, at least.

That is the exact sort of thing I want. No real magical ways of affecting someone, just communication.

Mental attacks are tricky.  They aren't a lot of ways to affect people mentally in combat.  Going back to Incite Emotion, you can create a mental attack with a range up to one zone away for -3 Refresh.  Such an attack adds +2 stress on a successful hit (basically, it's treated as a Weapon:2).  That's a pretty good guideline to use.  If you eliminate the stress bonus, I could potentially see the cost dropping to -2 Refresh instead.

And again, that's fantastic. You've been a great help.

[sinker]

My question though, is of mental communication. My character in the Fireborn game could talk mentally, at any distance, to anyone he'd met. How would such a power work? The basic idea of talking to someone mentally seems like a -1 refresh power, since it's not much different from talking - almost a magical stunt, but the idea of silent communication at any distance seems like it would be a problem. I've had a look at zones, but I'm still not sure how to cost this.

Refresh costs usually signify how important you want this to be to the story. I could see it being a 0 refresh power if you just want a cell phone with easy access. If the story has hinged on this ability multiple times then I could see it costing much more. How influential will it be to the game? Since this is a conversion of a long running game that should be a fairly easy question for you and your GM to answer.

On another note, I was going to add a mental attack to the character, as a line of sight attack that attacked the mental stress bar. How would such an attack be written out, and costed?

I don't have the book on me, but if you just want the ability to attack without the maneuvering that incite emotion starts with then you could always just "re-skin" the breath weapon power to do mental stress instead of physical stress. Just a thought.

[Gatts]

Refresh costs usually signify how important you want this to be to the story. I could see it being a 0 refresh power if you just want a cell phone with easy access. If the story has hinged on this ability multiple times then I could see it costing much more. How influential will it be to the game? Since this is a conversion of a long running game that should be a fairly easy question for you and your GM to answer.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the -2 refresh cost at first, as it seemed cheap for limitless communication. But I talked to the GM, and we decided that since it doesn't allow me to do anything other than talk, it's basically a magical silent mobile phone. It will be handy, but probably not a game changer.

I don't have the book on me, but if you just want the ability to attack without the maneuvering that incite emotion starts with then you could always just "re-skin" the breath weapon power to do mental stress instead of physical stress. Just a thought.

This one I wasn't sure of. I was under the impression that Mental combat would have to be more expensive than a breath weapon, as it's invisible and more difficult to counter. Nobody has mental armour, for instance.

Edit: Just had a much closer look at Incite Emotion, and it seems I missed an easy way to solve the Mental Attack problem. It means changing the way my character works slightly, but that's no big deal and it saves having to balance a new power.

[sinker]

It seemed to me that you're losing a bit of flexibility (I.E. the ability to maneuver as well as attack) for the cost of 1 refresh (Incite emotion would cost 3, breath weapon would cost 2), but if incite emotion works for you then that's easy.

[devonapple]

Telepathy is a fairly tricky issue as it's one of the things that the Laws of Magic.  More specifically, the Third Law - "Never Invade the Thoughts of Another."  The general consensus I've seen says that you'd probably be okay with just sending thoughts and picking up the surface thoughts that were sent back your way, but anything deeper is the sort of thing that could get someone in trouble.

My question is: do the Laws of Magic even matter in this reskinned Fireborn game? I suspect the OP is using the rules, but not necessarily the morality mechanism inherent in the DFRPG setting.

[Gatts]

My question is: do the Laws of Magic even matter in this reskinned Fireborn game? I suspect the OP is using the rules, but not necessarily the morality mechanism inherent in the DFRPG setting.

That is actually something we've been wondering. The Laws of Magic don't really fit the Fireborn game - we've actually forbidden access to Thaumaturgy for the time being because we're not certain it's balanced.

It's possible we can implement a setting specific mechanic to act as a similar counterbalance (taint), but until we figure it out, players can't have Thaumaturgy.

[Tsunami]

Adressing the communication issue:

We see Harry do something similar with Elaine in WN. From a rpg rules perspective he's doing that with Evocation, probably Spirit.
I't not limitless however, and he can only do it on a distance because he knows Elaine so well.

But i guess you could generally say that you can do stuff like that with a Spirit Evocation, that means you would need Channeling(Spirit) at least, that'S -2 Refresh.

So we modify that power:
Take away all the flexibility that Channeling Spirit would give you, restricting it to communication only. +1 refresh
Make the communication unrestricted by range, and remove the mental stress issue. -1 refresh

I'd say -2 refresh is quite alright.