[Fate] Dresden Files

[Kuba]

I had first DF session yesterday. This is my first Fate session as well. But we have some problems with it.

First: Player/Character GM/NPC Aspects knowledge problem...

1. Do GM know my PC Aspects? Assume, he does.
2. Do all NPC's know my Aspects?
3. Do I know Aspects of NPC's?
4. In City creation we created some High Concepts / Aspects of NPC? DO our characters know it?
5. If another player character know Aspect of NPC, do my character know it as well?

Second: Conflict timming.

Lets asumme im in conflikt with NPC. We roll the dice. I used Aspect to get reroll/+2 so NPC do it too. So we can do it again and again?

Ie.
P: rolled + + - -
GM: rolled - - + +
P: I use 1 Aspect (descritpion)
GM: I use 1 Aspect (descritpion)
P: I use 2 Aspect (descritpion)
GM: I use 2 Aspect...
so on.

[devonapple]

1. Do GM know my PC Aspects? Absolutely, and the GM should be Compelling those Aspects to give you plot complications and Fate points.
2. Do all NPC's know my Aspects? Not automatically. They would have to make some sort of Assessment check to find out, unless the GM decides it makes sense for them to know something intimate about you.
3. Do I know Aspects of NPC's? Not automatically. You would have to make some sort of Assessment check to find out, unless the GM saw fit to reveal one to you for plot purposes - you can also make guesses and bet a Fate Point to see if you are close.
4. In City creation we created some High Concepts / Aspects of NPC? DO our characters know it? Good question - I don't believe your characters would.
5. If another player character know Aspect of NPC, do my character know it as well? If they told you about it.

[Steppenwolf]

Second: Conflict timming.

Lets asumme im in conflikt with NPC. We roll the dice. I used Aspect to get reroll/+2 so NPC do it too. So we can do it again and again?

Ie.
P: rolled + + - -
GM: rolled - - + +
P: I use 1 Aspect (descritpion)
GM: I use 1 Aspect (descritpion)
P: I use 2 Aspect (descritpion)
GM: I use 2 Aspect...
so on.

Yes, remembering that:

• a player can use the same aspect only once per roll. I emphasized because the other player(s) can use the same aspect.
• the aspect must be appropriate
• you need to have the necessary Fate Points, unless you are tagging

[Watson]

I would rule that a player is not allowed to invoke aspects at any time they want to in a conflict. By this I mean, without any real support in the rules, that one side first invokes all the aspects that he or she wants, and then locks the results. After that the other side does the same. In case of an attack, the attacker starts, and then locks the results. After that the defender rolls and locks the results. A conflict can be seen, from the “attackers” point-of-view, as an apposed roll without knowing the target number (i.e. the defense roll has not been made at the time of the attack). I would use the same way of thinking in case the player would roll against a fixed, but unknown, target number. Once the player have made the roll and I reveal the target number, the player would not be allowed to suddenly invoke an aspect after realizing that he failed the roll  and re-rolling or add +2 to the result.

Please also note that once you have invoked an aspect to add +2, you are not allowed to re-roll, as the rules say that “Add two (+2) to the final die roll (after any rerolls have been done)”.

[UmbraLux]

1. Do GM know my PC Aspects? Assume, he does.
2. Do all NPC's know my Aspects?
3. Do I know Aspects of NPC's?
4. In City creation we created some High Concepts / Aspects of NPC? DO our characters know it?
5. If another player character know Aspect of NPC, do my character know it as well?

1.  Yes, the GM should know all PC aspects.  It's part of what he'll use to build adventures.
2.  No, NPCs won't know all PC aspects.  They may know some (most often high concept) depending on how (in)famous your PC is or what the aspect is based on.  (Emmisaries & Scions pretty much have to be known in clued-in circles.  It's why they receive the bonus from Marked by Power.)
3.  Do you know the NPC?  You don't know any more about strangers than you would in real life.  Think of aspects as jobs, job history, school history, and family events.  You may know the first one for a lot of people you meet...but probably won't learn much more unless they're friends or you do some research.  And if someone is living a double life, what you 'know' could be wrong...
4.  Depends...how famous is the NPC?  Did you PCs interact with them as part of character creation?
5.  Did he tell you?  Were you there when he learned that information?  Your character doesn't automatically know everything someone else does...but you are (presumably) allies who talk to each other. 

Second: Conflict timming.

Lets asumme im in conflikt with NPC. We roll the dice. I used Aspect to get reroll/+2 so NPC do it too. So we can do it again and again?

Each reroll costs a fate point.  Sooner or later you'll run out...

[toturi]

(Emmisaries & Scions pretty much have to be known in clued-in circles.  It's why they receive the bonus from Marked by Power.)

I'd say it depends. A previously unknown character displays a magic mark placed by a significant power, he would still be accorded respect due his Patron. If a character wishes to benefit from Marked by Power without actually displaying the mark, then he would need to have to be known to have that mark.

[noclue]

4. In City creation we created some High Concepts / Aspects of NPC? DO our characters know it? Good question - I don't believe your characters would.

I think this one depends on the situation. If the high concept is something your character would know about, then you probably can argue you know it. So, if you're a wizard who's involved in White Council affairs you probably know the aspect of the NPC with the high concept about being a warden, but you might not know his trouble of being a traitor to the council.

[Kuba]

But it is so easy to guess an High Concept Aspect of NPC or Location... I know it when we create in City Creation.
So i can just guess with 100% chance. It cost only FP:)

[Steppenwolf]

Please also note that once you have invoked an aspect to add +2, you are not allowed to re-roll, as the rules say that “Add two (+2) to the final die roll (after any rerolls have been done)”.

The rules are just pointing out that the fixed bonus is added to the final roll. They aren't forbidding to reroll after you invoke for a +2.
You can roll --++ , invoke for a +2 then invoke for a reroll and so on. Simply, the total +X is summed to the last roll.

[Wolfwood2]

I would rule that a player is not allowed to invoke aspects at any time they want to in a conflict. By this I mean, without any real support in the rules, that one side first invokes all the aspects that he or she wants, and then locks the results. After that the other side does the same.

Why?  It's pretty exciting to see two PCs get into a bidding war over something to see who wants it most.  It's especially hilarious when they they start invoking each other's aspects to their own benefit.

I swear, it seems like a lot of people have read through the books trying to put together a list of things they won't allow.  I don't get that mindset.

[EldritchFire]

I would rule that a player is not allowed to invoke aspects at any time they want to in a conflict. By this I mean, without any real support in the rules, that one side first invokes all the aspects that he or she wants, and then locks the results. After that the other side does the same. In case of an attack, the attacker starts, and then locks the results. After that the defender rolls and locks the results. A conflict can be seen, from the “attackers” point-of-view, as an apposed roll without knowing the target number (i.e. the defense roll has not been made at the time of the attack). I would use the same way of thinking in case the player would roll against a fixed, but unknown, target number. Once the player have made the roll and I reveal the target number, the player would not be allowed to suddenly invoke an aspect after realizing that he failed the roll  and re-rolling or add +2 to the result.

Please also note that once you have invoked an aspect to add +2, you are not allowed to re-roll, as the rules say that “Add two (+2) to the final die roll (after any rerolls have been done)”.

I'm confused...that's what Aspects are for. To make sure you succeed when it matters most. FATE doesn't do well with an adversarial mindset. It's all about telling a story.

Also, why forbid the invocation of multiple Aspects? If they're used to invoke your own aspect, the FP just goes away, it's not like it goes to the other party.

-EF

[Steppenwolf]

In case of an attack, the attacker starts, and then locks the results. After that the defender rolls and locks the results. A conflict can be seen, from the “attackers” point-of-view, as an apposed roll without knowing the target number (i.e. the defense roll has not been made at the time of the attack). I would use the same way of thinking in case the player would roll against a fixed, but unknown, target number.

Starting from the proposition I've underlined you should roll the defense roll before the attacker makes his own roll, just like when a character is trying to undertake a simple action: the GM decides the difficulty in advance, then the player rolls and use any aspects he wants.

However the rules are the following:

YS200:An attack is always rolled as a contest between the character (the attacker) and the opponent  (the defender).

YS207:Against an opponent, a maneuver is performed much like an attack—you roll an appropriate skill  against the opponent and try to beat the opponent’s defense roll.

YS193: Contests are much like simple actions, except the action is directly opposed by someone else and is easily resolved one way or another. Rather than setting a difficulty, each party rolls the appropriate skill, and the outcome is resolved as if the high roll had beaten a difficulty equal to the low roll.

Emphasis (underlined words) is mine.

[Tedronai]

Starting from the proposition I've underlined you should roll the defense roll before the attacker makes his own roll, just like when a character is trying to undertake a simple action: the GM decides the difficulty in advance, then the player rolls and use any aspects he wants.

However the rules are the following:Emphasis (underlined words) is mine.

Actually, that would seem to imply a simultaneous roll.

[Steppenwolf]

Yes, sorry. That was my point.
Actions are simultaneous and so it' s perfectly regular to put up an auction of FPs.

[TheMouse]

I admit that my rolling preferences are influenced somewhat by the concept of passing priority in Magic the Gathering. Here's how I do it:

Both the attacker and the defender roll their dice. The attacker then has the option to spend a fate point or not, then passes priority to the defender. The defender gets the choice to spend a fate point or not, then passes priority to the attacker. This continues until both sides decide that they wish to spend no further fate points, then the action is resolved.

I feel that this setup is the most fair and allows both parties to get the information they need to make a proper tactical choice. For example, it prevents situations like the following:

The attacker spends a bunch of fate points. The defender gets to see the result and decides not to spend any, because he knows that he's going to have to take a Severe Consequence anyhow, because that's the lowest one he's got left. Because of this, the attacker spent 2 more fate points than were necessary to accomplish that. This is sort of crap, because the tactical decision he made was an uninformed one.