Does the poison from fists ignore toughness armour?

[bitterpill]

Does the poison from fists ignore toughness power armour?

[Mal_Luck]

Had this discussion the other day with some people in chat. My stance was: "No it does not."

[MijRai]

I was a part of that conversation, and my opinion is yes it does.

My point of view is that Toughness gives you tough skin, harder bones. It doesn't seem like it would give you blood filtration to remove poison.

[Mal_Luck]

All Physical Stress reduction is all physical stress in my book. Poison clearly does physical stress damage.

Edit: Also that argument is predicated that it's only their skin/bones that are tougher. Which I disagree with.

[bitterpill]

I see so it is a no right answer gm mandate situation.

[Howl]

I agree with both Mal_Luck and MijRai. I discussed this with my group and we agreed that poison bypasses armor.
Talk it over with your group and decide how it works for you. Thats the best way

[zenten]

If the "armor" doesn't apply does that mean the extra stress boxes don't either?

[Peteman]

I think Poison should not bypass Toughness Based armor (unless the Catch is specifically Poison. Which I argue would be the case if one were to create a Buffy-esque Slayer)

[nearchus]

The Toughness power gives armor against *all* physical stress ("all" is even emphasized in the book.) Poison would be a perfectly good Catch for a Toughness power, but the rules are quite clear as to how the power works. Also, if you want a character that has physically tough skin and bones (and presumably organs), then your Catch would be any non-physical force (such as disease, poison, etc.)

I see so it is a no right answer gm mandate situation.

Only in the sense that anything is a GM mandated situation. The rule says "all physical stress". If the poison does physical stress then the power provides "armor" against it. There could certainly be a poison that satisfies a character's Catch, or even one so deadly that it satisfies all Catches (though this seems unlikely and sounds like a really terrible plot idea.)

[horvagab]

I can see a way around in a way: if the claws hit the character for damage, then poison applies, because in most cases that would mean that through clawing or whatever means the poison has entered the blood stream. Although that still leaves quite a few open endings.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think that Toughness armour ought to work against poison. Toughness reflects all forms of physical durability, and it makes sense to me that a creature with Mythic Toughness would be able to drink cyanide and not suffer for it.

That being said, I kinda like the idea of a poison that satisfies all catches as with the All Creatures Are Equal Before God power. The World Serpent from norse mythology definitely deserves that power.

[nearchus]

I can see a way around in a way: if the claws hit the character for damage, then poison applies, because in most cases that would mean that through clawing or whatever means the poison has entered the blood stream. Although that still leaves quite a few open endings.

The disconnect seems to be that people consider the "armor" of the Toughness powers to be "tough skin". If that were the case the ability wouldn't say "all physical stress". It's not a matter of them being just tough to beat on. They're resistant to poisons, disease, hot or cold environments, high pressure, etc. Any or all of these would be perfectly fine Catches for a character. And if you wanted it to be just tougher skin, then you could get a pretty hefty Catch (it's specific, and lots of things that people have easy access to get around it.)

That being said, I kinda like the idea of a poison that satisfies all catches as with the All Creatures Are Equal Before God power. The World Serpent from norse mythology definitely deserves that power.

I stand corrected. That's an excellent example of a poison that probably would have an equivalent effect to All Creatures Are Equal Before God.

[bitterpill]

Would a catch to supernatural venom +1 be satisfied by just attacking with venomous claws or would only the poison damage bypass the catch?

[UmbraLux]

Depends on trappings.  And individual groups, of course.  I'd suggest making a distinction between something which 'adds poison' and something which 'modifies the damage to be poison based'.  The difference between poison applied to a dagger and a dagger made of a poisonous material.

[devonapple]

I can see a way around in a way: if the claws hit the character for damage, then poison applies, because in most cases that would mean that through clawing or whatever means the poison has entered the blood stream. Although that still leaves quite a few open endings.

I've experimented with stacking Venom and Claw damage in a game, and it is overkill. The Venomous ability is doing enough damage that one can take for granted that some of it is "Claw" damage.

Also, I fear that folks may be forgetting that this system is an abstracted narrative mechanism, and not a point-based, finely tuned combat simulator.

I also support Toughness as providing sufficient defense against the physical stress of a Venomous attack (unless Poison/Venom is the Catch, of course), since Toughness powers are a combination of several effects rolled up into one, the sum of which covers the Armored Skin portion as well as the general increase in the heartiness of a creature with the ability.