Magical Plastic Surgery: How Far Can You Go? (Before You Hit The Second Law)

[bibliophile20]

So, I've got that biomancer warlock that I mentioned a while back; he's working for a mob boss in my game, doing little things like designer drug crafting, goon augmentation... and, the point of this thread, magical plastic surgery.

So, here's the question: What can a skilled biomancer do in terms of cosmetic modification to someone? 

And what complexities would you assign for having that change last for "a mortal's lifetime"?
I was thinking things like:
New face
New fingerprints
New hair
Taller
Shorter
Fatter
Skinnier
Gender swap
etc and so forth.

Note that this is for a criminal organization, giving a select clientele a new lease on life, without pesky interventions by the FBI or Interpol...   So this is pretty lucrative for them.

And, as a general comment, I think all of these fall solidly in the gray area of the 2nd Law... and will, for my game's purposes. 

[deathwombat]

Go for it
Already a warlock!

[Moriden]

I think your looking at two different levels. what i will refer to as mutations and permanent alterations.

Mutations, are an instantaneous affect that through damage alters a part of the persons body these should be fairly simple, relatively permanent on a human, and are in the grey area. Examples would include

Fatter  curse the person in such a way that they dont absorb nutrients properly, thus they grow fatter.       

Complexity ~6 to beat there defense roll, +x to cause a consequence which will be the spells duration.

Skinnier  As above           

New face   This will *not* be pretty. you'd be looking at things along the lines of breaking there nose, useing blunt trauma to reshape the skull ect., you'll need an extreme consequence.                   
 
New fingerprints  Easiest to simply remove them entirely via fire.               
 
New hair You could probably cause it to grow more or less, or make it white, anything more is verry probably a law violation.                     

Permanent Alterations
12 complexity to go from the standard thaumaturgical starting point of a day to a mortal lifetime. So thats your minimum. You will need another 30 to ensure it works, as all of these require extensive reworking of a persons body and thus invoke the section in your world that says that altering another person is the same thing as killing and remaking them.

[MijRai]

I would say it is only Lawbreaker if the patient is unwilling. If they go up and say 'Change my face', they volunteered for it. Now, all of the procedures would hurt, so the guy better know a good sleep spell to knock them out beforehand so that they don't move or mess anything up.

All of those would be completely possible, although the gender-switch would be iffy on efficacy as far as everything but looks go. With magic, you can change most anything with a proper ritual and enough time.

Moriden, you don't have to break their nose or use blunt trauma when you have magic. Part of the spell could make it flexible, then you shape it, then harden it again. Besides, I doubt normal plastic surgery is anywhere near an extreme consequence. Dangerous, sure. But completely possible and I doubt it would cause anything more then a moderate consequence.

Complete fingerprint removal is a waste of time, in many cases. They catch you, match DNA, then take fingerprints of your scars which do the exact same thing as a fingerprint. It is all but impossible to smooth out those lines via mundane means. Now, a magic user could... But fingerprints are there because they help your grip, so doing so would be a bit of a pain when you are holding things later.

[tordon]

Perhaps you could use a ritual to change someone fingerprints to match someone else's, using some sort of link?  That way, the fingerprints could incriminate someone else rather than the person.

[Moriden]

Moriden, you don't have to break their nose or use blunt trauma when you have magic. Part of the spell could make it flexible, then you shape it, then harden it again. Besides, I doubt normal plastic surgery is anywhere near an extreme consequence. Dangerous, sure. But completely possible and I doubt it would cause anything more then a moderate consequence.

Doing it in such a way as to not make it lawbreaker is the problem. go reread the section on altering people in your world.

[MijRai]

Doing it in such a way as to not make it lawbreaker is the problem. go reread the section on altering people in your world.

It is easy. Read the first two lines I said. If they volunteer for it, make it their choice, then it isn't a Lawbreaker.

[Moriden]

It is easy. Read the first two lines I said. If they volunteer for it, make it their choice, then it isn't a Lawbreaker.

Where exactly does it state in the book or novels that the person being willing makes it non lawbreaker?

[mithrandirthewhite]

I dont play DFPG, but im pretty sure LTW didnt break any Laws in TC

[Moriden]

I dont play DFPG, but im pretty sure LTW didnt break any Laws in TC

Nor did he alter anyone else. changing yourself is okay, changing someone else, even for "healing" is not. the books pretty clear on that

[mithrandirthewhite]

including healing? You'll need to clarify that for me.  And I think that the laws are against changing someone against their will since itinvolves you crushing their will to get them to become what you wish.

[MijRai]

Where exactly does it state in the book or novels that the person being willing makes it non lawbreaker?

The whole 'free will' thing. You can talk to the willing dead (ectomancy) but not make them do anything (necromancy). You can't break into their minds (Molly, for example), but you can go in and look if given permission Turn Coat Spoilers

(click to show/hide)

(Gatekeeper and Listens to the Wind in Turn Coat)

.

Furthermore, this isn't turning them into a newt, and destroying their minds with the shock and instant brain-size change. This is changing their appearance. While it is an important part of your self-image, it doesn't change your body in those importantly dangerous ways that full Transformation would.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think that magical plastic surgery could go pretty far without breaking any laws. But if you alter the brain or the important hormones of the body, it's probably Lawbreaking regardless of consent.

Which gives me a character idea: a warlock who changed the genders of some transsexuals and is now being hunted be a rather zealous Warden. He thinks that he was helping them, and he has a good case to back that up. But the gender-change has had a demonstrable effect on the minds (and maybe souls) of his "victims", so the Warden is actually acting within his duties.

[Moriden]

Transformation
and Disruption
Thaumaturgy that fundamentally, lastingly
changes the target—whether it’s the target’s
body, mind, emotions, or even luck—falls into
the category of transformation and disruption.
Often, this is dark stuff—curses, mind control,
destructive shapeshifting, and death magic.
Of all the methods available through thaumaturgy,
these are the ones most prone to run afoul
of the Laws of Magic (page 232). Regardless of
what the spell changes, this is a violent act to the
target: people and things are very good at being
what they are, and this sort of magic forces them
to be what they aren’t.
As such, these forms of thaumaturgy rely on
the same mechanical principle—most of them
inflict consequences or temporary aspects on a
target. Entropic curses inflict aspects that reflect
bad luck and other kinds of misfortune. Emotion
magic inflicts aspects related to emotional states
(lust, anger, fear, etc.) that the victim can fall
prey to. Mind control is just that—the aspect,
when compelled, forces the victim to act in a
certain way. In rarer cases, a curse might actually
be fully transformative, changing the shape
or nature of a being permanently.
Because these forms of thaumaturgy function
via consequences, a wizard needs to make
sure that the spell is complex enough to overcome
any resistance the target might be able to
raise (defense rolls, stress tracks, etc.), as well as
add enough shifts for the desired level of consequence
(0 for a temporary aspect, 2 for mild,
4 for moderate, 6 for severe, 8 for extreme).
Anything that is fully transformative must be
powerful enough to achieve a “taken out” result
on the target, which can be extremely complex
(see “Contests and Conflicts,” page 265)—which
isn’t to say there aren’t sorcerers out there practicing
that kind of black magic. Sadly, there
are plenty.

The whole 'free will' thing. You can talk to the willing dead (ectomancy) but not make them do anything (necromancy). You can't break into their minds (Molly, for example), but you can go in and look if given permission Turn Coat Spoilers (Gatekeeper and Listens to the Wind in Turn Coat).

Ectomancy is not talking to the "willing" dead its talking to the impressions left behind, there not actually souls. harrys pretty clear on that.

Furthermore, this isn't turning them into a newt, and destroying their minds with the shock and instant brain-size change. This is changing their appearance. While it is an important part of your self-image, it doesn't change your body in those importantly dangerous ways that full Transformation would.

Doesn't matter if its turning them into a newt or altering them so that they are an inch taller. both are fundamental changes to what *they are* you cant change someone in such a maner without it affecting them. To use your example of molly, even *just looking* into someones mind is a violation of the relevant law regardless of if you alter them in anyway.

[mithrandirthewhite]

then what about the Merlin's sending in Turn Coat?