How to model a horde of nameless ghouls

[MAK]

I've had trouble figuring out how to use the rules to model a horde of nameless-NPC ghouls. The main problem rises from the way the recovery powers are modeled with consequences, but the bookkeeping of said consequences slows the game down very fast when dealing with a large group of opponents. And nameless NPC's aren't supposed to take any consequences anyway, exactly to avoid such bookkeeping...

Any experience or ideas how to model ghouls (or zombies, or whatever "regenerating" critter) as an easy  to run nameless NPC? Using toughness powers instead and just describing the effects as regeneration comes to mind - anything else?

[zenten]

Unless the ghouls are going to be showing up again just give them minor consequences only, which the ghoul then immediately recovers if it can.

[Ophidimancer]

Model the entire horde as one character.  Allow it to do Spray attacks against everyone in a zone and have Consequences be diminishing size of horde.

Perhaps allow a bonus to hit the horde, a la Hulking Size, at least until it's reduced down to a more manageable size.

[MAK]

Unless the ghouls are going to be showing up again just give them minor consequences only, which the ghoul then immediately recovers if it can.

This would help, but does not completely solve the bookkeeping issue:

1) The single minor consequence the ghoul can take at a time still remains until the ghoul starts its next turn and can use its supplemental action for recovery. Or did you mean to actually recover a minor consequence as soon as it is received?

2) The GM has to track how many recoveries each ghoul has left.

Model the entire horde as one character.  Allow it to do Spray attacks against everyone in a zone and have Consequences be diminishing size of horde.

Perhaps allow a bonus to hit the horde, a la Hulking Size, at least until it's reduced down to a more manageable size.

OK, this could work. To keep some amount of maneuverability, I'd probably split the ghouls into more than one group, though. And instead of spray attacks just deal as many attacks as the group has members.

[DFJunkie]

Is the purpose of the encounter to fight and beat the horde?  If so, I'd recommend adapting the minion rules from SotC to Dresden.  If the horde is there to harry the PCs, or to make some other conflict (grabbing an item, stopping a ritual, etc.) more interesting you could go with an entirely different mechanism.

An example of an alternate mechanism would be to treat it like a race, where the horde needs a certain number of successes to overwhelm the party and inflict whatever "taken out" result would be appropriate.  The horde would "attack" at a certain value (probably at least Epic assuming the PCs act at Superb) and accumulate successes each turn.  The PCs would have to split their actions between accomplishing their main goal and beating back the horde.  For extra fun PCs could voluntarily accept consequences to reduce the horde's net successes. 

The mechanics seem odd, and they are, but if you narrate it right it could definitely simulate a group of people beset by many, many opponents who are dangerous in numbers, but not individually that threatening.

[Arcteryx]

Not that it helps much if you don't have the rules on hand, but I think Spirit of the Century (another Evil Hat FATE product) has rules to model a mob of mooks.

[bitterpill]

An example of an alternate mechanism would be to treat it like a race, where the horde needs a certain number of successes to overwhelm the party and inflict whatever "taken out" result would be appropriate.  The horde would "attack" at a certain value (probably at least Epic assuming the PCs act at Superb) and accumulate successes each turn.  The PCs would have to split their actions between accomplishing their main goal and beating back the horde.  For extra fun PCs could voluntarily accept consequences to reduce the horde's net successes. 

The mechanics seem odd, and they are, but if you narrate it right it could definitely simulate a group of people beset by many, many opponents who are dangerous in numbers, but not individually that threatening.

I really like this mechanism but what stops a pc going right this horde is getting annoying I am going to wipe them out with one area of effect spell.

[Tedronai]

I really like this mechanism but what stops a pc going right this horde is getting annoying I am going to wipe them out with one area of effect spell.

nothing that wouldn't stop them from doing the same thing in a game where the scenario was modeled more conventionally (ie. independently, and attacking normally)

[MAK]

A new idea for a (SotC-style) minion ghoul:

Supernatural recovery for nameless NPC's translates to a "stress threshold". The monster recovers any stress that is lower than the threshold value so fast it has no perceptible game effect (in narration this stress can of course produce minor injuries which immediately start healing). A hit that causes more shifts of stress than the threshold takes the monster out immediately (but might still not kill it, depending on the narration).

So, for example, a ghoul could have a stress threshold value of 3, which means that it would take a 4-stress hit to affect it at all, but such hit takes it out immediately - as it would any nameless NPC with less than 4 stress boxes.

Such model in my opinion keeps regenerating monsters simple enough to keep the game running fast, while giving the impression of a different knd of toughness than armor or extra stress boxes can convey. This model could even be combined with the standard recovery powers for named or main NPC's...

Comments?

[DFJunkie]

I really like this mechanism but what stops a pc going right this horde is getting annoying I am going to wipe them out with one area of effect spell.

Depends on the setting.  Assuming the ghouls aren't all clustered in the same zone, and they probably wouldn't be, they're smart enough to split up and attack from all sides, I would just increase the successes earned from an area affect attack by +3 or something (to make it worth your while, over the +2 shifts required to enact an area attack).

Once you have the basic mechanic worked out you can just wing the rest. 

On the other hand, if it's a straight fight where either the PCs or the Ghouls wipe out the other side I would absolutely suggest using the SotC minion rules, though to be honest Dresdenverse Ghouls do not go down as easily as SotC minions.

[admiralducksauce]

A new idea for a (SotC-style) minion ghoul:

Supernatural recovery for nameless NPC's translates to a "stress threshold". The monster recovers any stress that is lower than the threshold value so fast it has no perceptible game effect (in narration this stress can of course produce minor injuries which immediately start healing). A hit that causes more shifts of stress than the threshold takes the monster out immediately (but might still not kill it, depending on the narration).

So, for example, a ghoul could have a stress threshold value of 3, which means that it would take a 4-stress hit to affect it at all, but such hit takes it out immediately - as it would any nameless NPC with less than 4 stress boxes.

Such model in my opinion keeps regenerating monsters simple enough to keep the game running fast, while giving the impression of a different knd of toughness than armor or extra stress boxes can convey. This model could even be combined with the standard recovery powers for named or main NPC's...

Comments?

I like this, it's very similar to minions' Threat rating in REIGN.  I for one am yoinking this.