Old Technology that was recently manufactured?

[Sanctaphrax]

I have an urge to make a physicist wizard with a hexing-based trouble aspect now.

Maybe I'll use that old idea about scientific fields as magical elements for him.

[Team8Mum]

If I was the White council I'd want a few carefully placed individuals at the 'cutting edge' just to make sure they were not crossing the line into something more 'magical'. Especially with ritual's ability for any one to follow the recipe. People in the right place to nudge the research away from the danger areas.
Pauli is an excellent example, given the Pauli effect, and Babbage's machines, though theoretically sound never actually worked in his life time (officially because they were too complex and expensive to build)

[sandchigger]

Err, isn't working with the latest technology rather against what a wizard can do in Dresden?

No, working with modern technology is against what a wizard can do in Dresden. Nowhere has it been stated that this is a sliding scale. If you were a wizard before WWII, you could well have used the bleeding edge tech of the day without a problem, it's only after things got more complicated than that (for instance: computers) that being a wizard got to be an issue with technology.

[Warpmind]

No, working with modern technology is against what a wizard can do in Dresden. Nowhere has it been stated that this is a sliding scale. If you were a wizard before WWII, you could well have used the bleeding edge tech of the day without a problem, it's only after things got more complicated than that (for instance: computers) that being a wizard got to be an issue with technology.

Actually, the rulebook does say that more delicate technology has greater problems in the presence of a wizard, implying SOME degree of a sliding scale, just not a calendar-based one... So I would assume that electronics that have been hardened against interference could have a less rough time of it than, say, the latest iPhone.
Also, something to consider, what does this say for nanomechanics? For example, a clock made with the smallest cogwheels modern metallurgy can allow? It'd be completely mechanical, using designs dating back to at least the Victorian era... but it would most definitely qualify as "delicate", whereas for example one of Babbage's logical machines, built to the scale of an airport hangar to allow for a more rugged construction might not have any problems at all...

Just thinkin' out loud here...

[Imp]

what does this say for nanomechanics? For example, a clock made with the smallest cogwheels modern metallurgy can allow? It'd be completely mechanical, using designs dating back to at least the Victorian era... but it would most definitely qualify as "delicate", whereas for example one of Babbage's logical machines, built to the scale of an airport hangar to allow for a more rugged construction might not have any problems at all..

I think when it comes to mechanical the rules would work on a "margin of error" to see how delicate it would effect.   like your clock above, if one gear paused for a moment would that cause another gear to sheer it's teeth and a chain reaction that would destroy the item or would a simply hiccup just have it paused for a moment but truck on without an issue.   So kinda like would this thing survive a little jossle or bump and not have a catastrophic result.

my out loud input

[Drachasor]

No, working with modern technology is against what a wizard can do in Dresden. Nowhere has it been stated that this is a sliding scale. If you were a wizard before WWII, you could well have used the bleeding edge tech of the day without a problem, it's only after things got more complicated than that (for instance: computers) that being a wizard got to be an issue with technology.

The rules are actually pretty clear that the older you are, the easier older technology is to hex.  The WWII thing is just for Wizards that are 40-ish give or take a decade or so.

[ducere1315]

Yes, the older the wizard the easier it is to foul up technology with moving parts, electrically dependent or otherwise complex. YS p.259. The rule of thumb for how easy tech is to hex was if a technology was well established/matured before the wizard was born, then it will be far less likely to be hexed unintentionally and far more difficult to hex intentionally.

[sinker]

No, working with modern technology is against what a wizard can do in Dresden. Nowhere has it been stated that this is a sliding scale. If you were a wizard before WWII, you could well have used the bleeding edge tech of the day without a problem, it's only after things got more complicated than that (for instance: computers) that being a wizard got to be an issue with technology.

I'm pretty sure that WOJ (or Fred) is that it is a sliding scale. I seem to recall a quote stating that wizards have always had trouble of some kind. Like back in the middle ages they curdled milk and the like. Sorry I can't remember exactly where I saw that, but I'm pretty sure.

[UmbraLux]

Accidental hexing works off compels so occurs when the GM thinks it should affect the story.  Intentional hexing follows the sliding difficulty / complexity scale on YS258.

[Kommisar]

In addition to the age part mentioned above, I tend to go by a wizards ability to hex (willing or not) technology being directly proportional to the effects of Murphy's Law on said tech.  The more things/parts that any given piece of tech has that can break or go wrong the more likely it is that it will do so around a wizard.  Face it, fancy phones like the Iphone break and go south with just us mortals playing with them!  But, a good old Ma Bell wall mounted rotary phone... those things still work today if it has been kept out of the back yard.  A wizard could hex it... but as there is less in one that can break, it's tougher.

Same holds true for weaponry.  There is a lot more moving parts and complexity in a P90 SMG than there is in, say, a MP-40 issued to "Zee Germans" in WWII.  Even less in a good, solid bolt action rifle.  Or, even simpler, a breach loading shotgun.

Don't try to over think this issue to much guys.  It's magic and does not have to work to any hard logical defining rules like, say, gravity.  Then again... gravity gets a bit wonky if you start getting real particular and look at it close enough.   

[devonapple]

Don't try to over think this issue to much guys.  It's magic and does not have to work to any hard logical defining rules like, say, gravity.  Then again... gravity gets a bit wonky if you start getting real particular and look at it close enough.   

Also, it is turtles all the way down.

[Seb Wiers]

I'm pretty sure that WOJ (or Fred) is that it is a sliding scale. I seem to recall a quote stating that wizards have always had trouble of some kind. Like back in the middle ages they curdled milk and the like. Sorry I can't remember exactly where I saw that, but I'm pretty sure.

Hmm, might be an explanation for why certain cultures never used the wheel to any useful degree, despite evidence they knew how to make them...

Aztec priest comes up to oversee construction of temple.  Wheels stop working.  Fore-man of work crew is sacrificed for using unreliable new construction methods and failing to complete job on time.

[TheMouse]

I think of it like this. There are two components at work here:

1. The age of the technology. This is the bit where an old car using old tech is more reliable than a new car using new tech.

2. The fragility of the item in question. Let's face it, a cell phone has pretty fragile parts when compared to a steam engine.

So you need to reference those two things to see what shakes apart.

Something totally cutting edge that had relatively few moving parts and is constructed of exclusively strong materials offers a lot less that can go wrong. There aren't many things that could go wrong, so the likelihood of anything actually going wrong -- even in the presence of a wizard -- is much lower than if a wizard decides to play with your iPod.

Think of the first thing as controlling how often and hard someone kicks something. Think of the second as the intrinsic resistance to being kicked into bits.

[Drachasor]

I think of it like this. There are two components at work here:

1. The age of the technology. This is the bit where an old car using old tech is more reliable than a new car using new tech.

2. The fragility of the item in question. Let's face it, a cell phone has pretty fragile parts when compared to a steam engine.

So you need to reference those two things to see what shakes apart.

Something totally cutting edge that had relatively few moving parts and is constructed of exclusively strong materials offers a lot less that can go wrong. There aren't many things that could go wrong, so the likelihood of anything actually going wrong -- even in the presence of a wizard -- is much lower than if a wizard decides to play with your iPod.

Think of the first thing as controlling how often and hard someone kicks something. Think of the second as the intrinsic resistance to being kicked into bits.

(1) is more the Age of the Technology relative to the wizard.  Hmm, a Lawbreaker timetraveler from 2200 could probably use all current technology just fine, which would make non-time traveling wizards think they aren't human.

[TheMouse]

(1) is more the Age of the Technology relative to the wizard.  Hmm, a Lawbreaker timetraveler from 2200 could probably use all current technology just fine, which would make non-time traveling wizards think they aren't human.

Well, yeah. I thought that part was obvious from the context in this thread, so I didn't bother saying it.