Where does the system break down in terms of power level

[zenten]

So any game system I've used/studied before in depth has a "sweet spot" where it works best, and if you get too far beyond that (or beneath that) things start to break down.  Where does that tend to happen in FATE (specifically the version that Dresden Files uses)?  I'd imagine there's a point based on skill cap, and a point based on base refresh, but I really can't tell where that is.  I know that the stuff outlined in Our World doesn't seem to be powerful enough for my Submerged PCs as a group, but that could just be not making NPC stats for that, instead of reflecting some truth of the system.

[toturi]

I think that system starts to breakdown at the high teens. Once you get to the 20 Refresh, things begin to get difficult if you want to adhere to the DF canon.

[KOFFEYKID]

Id say the system breaks down largely based on the skill system. Eventually you've got most of the skills on your sheet and you wont be able to upgrade any of them. I've worked out a sort of temporary fix for that.

I suggested to a few of my GMs an alternative Major Milestone option. Here it is:

"Instead of raising the skill cap you can instead raise the skill minimum. From Mediocre to Average and so on."

This is to represent that the characters have been around the block a few times.

[Moriden]

The second you allow thaumaturgy or sponsored magic.

[bitterpill]

The second you allow thaumaturgy or sponsored magic.

I like Thaumaturgy and Sponsored Magic they add flavour and options.

[Moriden]

I like Thaumaturgy and Sponsored Magic they add flavour and options.

Certainly that doesn't change the fact that they very rapidly break the system.

[bitterpill]

I can see why you think thaumaturgy is broken it has plenty of options for macro-stacking and can be at a scale which is far greater than anything you can do on the fly but I don't see what is so broken about Sponsored Magic which is just flavoured evocation which can give a few free fate points.

[Ophidimancer]

Sponsored Magic technically gives you access to Thaumaturgy as well, or at least Ritual.

[bitterpill]

My mistake I thought you could only do the ritual part at the speed of evocation which is not that broken because of the stress limitation for Sponsored Magic.

[sinker]

Certainly that doesn't change the fact that they very rapidly break the system.

Only if you let them. A good GM knows how to work with their players.

[MijRai]

Yeah, as far as thaumaturgy goes, it only breaks the system if you let it. I've already spelled out before that in my games, if someone tries a munchkin ritual, first, I'll warn him in game. Then, I'll interrupt him in game. Finally, the roof will cave in and he will be devoured by Godzilla. Sponsored Magic is fine, so long as you keep in mind that you can only do some things.

EDIT: As far as just buying more and more in the way of powers, tell them they should get some Stunts. I mean, Stunts when used correctly give great boosts, and more flavor.

[Katarn]

Id say the system breaks down largely based on the skill system. Eventually you've got most of the skills on your sheet and you wont be able to upgrade any of them. I've worked out a sort of temporary fix for that.

I suggested to a few of my GMs an alternative Major Milestone option. Here it is:

"Instead of raising the skill cap you can instead raise the skill minimum. From Mediocre to Average and so on."

This is to represent that the characters have been around the block a few times.

I like this a lot actually.  It keeps the ridiculous refresh down and allows subtle improvement.  If this too becomes an issue from repeated use then congratulations, you've burned out your campaign game 

[Sanctaphrax]

I'm currently GMing a PbP game in the mid-high teens. It seems to be working pretty well so far, although we haven't gotten very far yet thanks to a number of out-of-game problems.

I've built characters that have 40+ refresh in powers before, but I've never gone beyond 65 skill points. Like KOFFEYKID said, things get a bit silly.

[Drachasor]

Hmm, to me it looks like the system would start to break down as the difference between people who have True Faith, Evocation and other magic, and perhaps Strength powers start to move ahead of those that do not.  True Faith and magic in particular can grant large bonuses to hit fairly easily.  It is a bit of a concern I have in the game I'm a player in.  We have a human cop (based on Dan Stark of The Good Guys) and a pseudo-werewolf (can't change shape, but not a lycanthrope, no strength powers) and two magic users.  The werewolf guy has a big religion theme, so I could see him getting True Faith eventually.  If the game goes on for a long time though, I am worried about how Dan is going to keep up.

I suppose one advantage is the fact that social encounters aren't affected by these abilities as much.  That's a nice thing.  Seems like normal humans get shafted in combat fairly quickly though.

[bitterpill]

Normal Humans should get shafted in combat, they make up for it by being numerous.Recovery Powers seem them most potent power in a campaign as a well speced fighter should be able to take up too severe concequences and be ok in five minutes time, so a fighter can keep going and going well after the wizard has ran out of tricks (in campaigns where mythic levels are an option mythic recovery is the best power by far).