Is a disarm tag, a reasonable maneuver/effect?

[citadel97501]

Hello all,

I am just wondering but is it reasonable to use a maneuver to tag someone as disarmed?  I am thinking of a earth based maneuver to disarm them perhaps by yanking their guns out f their hands with a temporary spell?

I could just do this with a block, but a maneuver seems better to me, but then again i haven't tried this yet?

[jybil178]

I hate being tired, but I'll try to see if I can help any...

I can hardly seem to remember most of the rules at the moment...  But one thing I know for sure you could do, is place a maneuver on them, and tag it for effect.  From their, the ST could compel the said person to be disarmed, but at that same point, the NPC could say no, and spend a Fate Point.

But if I recall, hazy as it is, that isn't the only way to go about it.  Again though, I really wish I could help more...  I shouldn't respond to posts when i'm about to pass out >.<

[Drachasor]

I hate being tired, but I'll try to see if I can help any...

I can hardly seem to remember most of the rules at the moment...  But one thing I know for sure you could do, is place a maneuver on them, and tag it for effect.  From their, the ST could compel the said person to be disarmed, but at that same point, the NPC could say no, and spend a Fate Point.

But if I recall, hazy as it is, that isn't the only way to go about it.  Again though, I really wish I could help more...  I shouldn't respond to posts when i'm about to pass out >.<

This is correct.  A tag can be invoked for a +2, reroll, or for effect.  The Devs (Fred Hicks in particular) have made clear an Invoke For Effect can be a compel on the aspect tagged.  You don't spend a fate point on this compel, but they must spend one to resist.  If they accept the compel, they get a fate point.

[UmbraLux]

I am just wondering but is it reasonable to use a maneuver to tag someone as disarmed? 

Yes.  Just remember it's a temporary condition since the rules abstract narrative rather than simulating actions.  Depending on the situation, you might tag the Disarmed aspect or invoke it for effect.  If tagged, it's specifically a temporary condition for one action / exchange.  Invoked for effect it may last longer, but is still subject to removal as are all temporary aspects.

[Drachasor]

Yes.  Just remember it's a temporary condition since the rules abstract narrative rather than simulating actions.  Depending on the situation, you might tag the Disarmed aspect or invoke it for effect.  If tagged, it's specifically a temporary condition for one action / exchange.  Invoked for effect it may last longer, but is still subject to removal as are all temporary aspects.

Invoke for Effect and they don't have the weapon (or whatever).  You can go pick it up as your action and they can't get it back without doing a maneuver on you to take it away.

[Mal_Luck]

This is correct.  A tag can be invoked for a +2, reroll, or for effect.  The Devs (Fred Hicks in particular) have made clear an Invoke For Effect can be a compel on the aspect tagged.  You don't spend a fate point on this compel, but they must spend one to resist.  If they accept the compel, they get a fate point.

If it's done with a tag rather than an invoke, I don't think they get a Fate Point.

YS106
"Tags, even  if  they are  to a character’s detri-
ment, do not award a  fate point  like a normal
invocation would.  If  no  fate  point was  spent,
there’s no fate point to pass around."

[Drachasor]

If it's done with a tag rather than an invoke, I don't think they get a Fate Point.

YS106
"Tags, even  if  they are  to a character’s detri-
ment, do not award a  fate point  like a normal
invocation would.  If  no  fate  point was  spent,
there’s no fate point to pass around."

If an Invoke For Effect starts a Compel, then that Compel is technically separate, so they still pay or get a Fate Point.  Fred Hicks went over this in another thread...we really need a sticky with this stuff.

[Mal_Luck]

If an Invoke For Effect starts a Compel, then that Compel is technically separate, so they still pay or get a Fate Point.  Fred Hicks went over this in another thread...we really need a sticky with this stuff.

I showed my example, you show me yours. 

Not saying I don't believe you, I would just like reference.

[Drachasor]

I showed my example, you show me yours. 

Not saying I don't believe you, I would just like reference.

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24061.30.html

Iago is Hicks.

[Mal_Luck]

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24061.30.html

Iago is Hicks.

Good deal, the examples I found in the book were mainly for tagging for the +2. So I guess this makes sense.

Thank you. 

[Katarn]

Hello all,

I am just wondering but is it reasonable to use a maneuver to tag someone as disarmed?  I am thinking of a earth based maneuver to disarm them perhaps by yanking their guns out f their hands with a temporary spell?

I could just do this with a block, but a maneuver seems better to me, but then again i haven't tried this yet?

It's weird- I just made a character with this exact Rote:
Dí-armáil      (“Disarm”)
   Power: 6 (4 Conviction, 2 Focus)
   Control: 6 (4 Discipline, 2 Focus)
   Opposed by: Disspell, Might
   Targeting: 1 Zone LoS
   Duration: Instant
   Effect: Pulls all metallic weapons away from their wielders as if Effect 4.  Pulls items
to the ground a safe distance from myself.  (In other words, they get the temporary aspect “disarmed”)

So I would Invoke for Effect in this case.  It's 1 Zone, so everyone in there needs to roll Might 4 or lose their weapon.

[Drachasor]

It's weird- I just made a character with this exact Rote:
Dí-armáil      (“Disarm”)
   Power: 6 (4 Conviction, 2 Focus)
   Control: 6 (4 Discipline, 2 Focus)
   Opposed by: Disspell, Might
   Targeting: 1 Zone LoS
   Duration: Instant
   Effect: Pulls all metallic weapons away from their wielders as if Effect 4.  Pulls items
to the ground a safe distance from myself.  (In other words, they get the temporary aspect “disarmed”)

So I would Invoke for Effect in this case.  It's 1 Zone, so everyone in there needs to roll Might 4 or lose their weapon.

Hmm, well, technically you can place a maneuver on 1 guy or on a zone.  Invoking for Effect for a compel-like effect wouldn't be resistible except with a fate point.  Hmm.  Technically they'd never get to resist with a roll, but anyone losing their weapon would get a fate point.  Odd that way.

[LokiTM]

I don't think I would allow the free tag to compel against all the targets. It would be one fate point for each disarm after the first. I have been thinking that if one wanted multiple tag compels the correct structure would be a spray attack manuver. Then each placed aspect would be independent and could be tagged. Also seems more balanced.

[Drachasor]

I don't think I would allow the free tag to compel against all the targets. It would be one fate point for each disarm after the first. I have been thinking that if one wanted multiple tag compels the correct structure would be a spray attack manuver. Then each placed aspect would be independent and could be tagged. Also seems more balanced.

Hmm, hard to say.  That might be a good way to go, depending, though normally you can't spray attack maneuvers.

[LokiTM]

I was wondering about spray attack maneuvers. I don't recall it being in there explicitly, but it seems a reasonable extrapolation and does not seem to be forbidden. Maybe I will start a thread on the question.