Gun Stunts

[Ren]

Heh, isn't that OP?  Let's say I'm making a gunfighter and let's say sure, it's a 7-refresh game (whatever that power level's fancy name is, I forget), and my Guns and Athletics are both 4.  Now for 1 refresh I can dodge at 6.

Buts that's a 6 vs Ranged Attacks Only. In any case I am fairly happy with the current versions of all 3 Stunts.

I can see the argument against the power-creep for Two-Gun Mojo but then again a great (+4) Gunman SHOULD be a lot better at placing more bullets more accurately than a Fair (+2) Gunman.

As for Gun Kata yes its is a good Stunt but its only versus directed projectiles, NOT Area of Effect, not Fists and not Weapons so I think those 'Catches' are a more than sufficient balance.

[BumblingBear]

Heh, isn't that OP?  Let's say I'm making a gunfighter and let's say sure, it's a 7-refresh game (whatever that power level's fancy name is, I forget), and my Guns and Athletics are both 4.  Now for 1 refresh I can dodge at 6.

Yeah but that would only be while holding 1 handed guns and would not be viable against melee.  It's really powerful but I would allow it because it is so specialized.

[BumblingBear]

As for Gun Kata yes its is a good Stunt but its only versus directed projectiles, NOT Area of Effect, not Fists and not Weapons so I think those 'Catches' are a more than sufficient balance.

If you took magic out of there I would like your version.  As I said before, I just don't see how magic could be predictable like the vectors of bullets.

I mean, if I wanted to I could curve an evocation, or make it a slashing straight line... you could even call lightning.  I just can't see a guy doing a gun kata avoiding that...

VS. bullets it is 100% thematically and mechanically appropriate, though.

[Ren]

Also, thinking of another Stunt(s); "Gunslinger" or "Quick-Draw Artist" or maybe even another for "Trick Shot Artist"?
The idea is to reflect somebody who can draw and fire quickly and accurately in the first round of combat and only slightly less so in subsequent rounds

option 1: Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat and +2 to your attack roll. In subsequent rounds this drops to +1 Initiative and +1 to your attack.

option 2: Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat. In subsequent rounds this is replaced by a +2 to your attack.

Trick-Shot Artist[-1]; Your ability to perform incredible feats of shooting is more than legendary; You may use Guns to perform Maneuvers or Declarations that place Aspects on a target and in addition you gain +2 to Guns for the purpose of such maneuvers.

-I'm considering adding a Fate Point to the cost of any or all of the above as part of the cost but I'm on the fence about it.

[Ren]

The idea behind being able to dodge Magic is that it is limited to only attacks that can be seen. You can curve the shot all you like but if the character can see it coming in he can have the chance to avoid it. Not saying its going to be easy but it fits the flavor of using the Kata in a world with magic-users. 

[BumblingBear]

Also, thinking of another Stunt(s); "Gunslinger" or "Quick-Draw Artist" or maybe even another for "Trick Shot Artist"?
The idea is to reflect somebody who can draw and fire quickly and accurately in the first round of combat and only slightly less so in subsequent rounds

option 1: Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat and +2 to your attack roll. In subsequent rounds this drops to +1 Initiative and +1 to your attack.

option 2: Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat. In subsequent rounds this is replaced by a +2 to your attack.

Both of these are really overpowered for a mortal stunt.  Consider that a mortal stunt for being a blade master only gives a +1 to your attack with a sword.  Maybe a +2 with a very specific, named weapon.

I think for option 2 if you made the attack +1 after the initiative bonus, that would be borderline but ok (with 1 very specific gun it could be +2).  It would also be awesome.

The idea behind being able to dodge Magic is that it is limited to only attacks that can be seen. You can curve the shot all you like but if the character can see it coming in he can have the chance to avoid it. Not saying its going to be easy but it fits the flavor of using the Kata in a world with magic-users. 

No, it really doesn't.

The Gun Kata in equilibrium was a learned series of movements to dodge attacks based on the probability of where they were coming from, when, and from what vectors.  It had nothing to do with visually dodging at all.

Dodging an attack is athletics whether one has a gun or not.

My version added +2 to athletics because it would not make any sense for an out of shape person to be making weird poses and dodging much of anything.  It would make sense that the gun kata would stack on top of athletics.  The more lithe and athletic the person, the more effective the gun kata would be (like in the movie).

Lastly, who says that magic attacks have to be visible?  Heck, who says that they even have to originate from you?  Using levitation, one could fling at rock at the gunslinger from /behind/ him.  There's no probability in that.  There's no predictability.  How do you predict lightning?

Adding +2 against magic for "gun kata" in my version is actually fairly generous in my opinion.

[Ren]

I understand that magic doesn't have to be visible, indeed it would not work against an invisible attack.
However you are correct about the Movie version being about predicting vectors, angles of attack and such so I can see that argument against it.

[bobjob]

option 1: Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat and +2 to your attack roll. In subsequent rounds this drops to +1 Initiative and +1 to your attack.

option 2: Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat. In subsequent rounds this is replaced by a +2 to your attack.

Trick-Shot Artist[-1]; Your ability to perform incredible feats of shooting is more than legendary; You may use Guns to perform Maneuvers or Declarations that place Aspects on a target and in addition you gain +2 to Guns for the purpose of such maneuvers.

Options 1 and 2 are OP when you consider the rules for Mortal Stunts starting on YS148. It's almost like you're combining two Mortal Stunts together for the full benefit instead of using the rules for combining stunts to get half benefit.

Here are a few examples what trappings can do that seem to be in the same vein you're looking to go:
Give a +1 to attack, improving accuracy under a specific circumstance. (Example: Target-Rich Environment)

Give a +2 to an attack's result, applied only if the attack was successful, under particular conditions (Example: Lethal Weapon)

Combine any two of the 2-shift effects from above at half value (Example: Scene of the Crime)

Get a more powerful effect, but only when you spend a fate point and usually only allowed once per scene (Example: Killer Blow)

I would rework Gunslinger like this:

Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat.

Also, there is a Trick Shot Artist (Guns) trapping that Marcone has on OW189. Here it is.

Trick Shot Artist (Guns): When attacking with Guns, +2 on the roll for shots taken at things (not characters), such as ropes holding chandeliers, etc. (Particularly effective when used with Taking Aim).

[Tbora]

Well for one thing its established that defensive stunts are made at +2 and per RAW it's totally legitimate. If you or your GM wants to house rule otherwise that's totally fine, but at least according ton the rules non attack stunts are always either +2 or +1 with an increase to +3 for a fate point.

[Ren]

I would rework Gunslinger like this:

Gunslinger [-1]; Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately are legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat.

Also, there is a Trick Shot Artist (Guns) trapping that Marcone has on OW189. Here it is.

Trick Shot Artist (Guns): When attacking with Guns, +2 on the roll for shots taken at things (not characters), such as ropes holding chandeliers, etc. (Particularly effective when used with Taking Aim).

The problem with that version of Gunslinger is that there is already an Alertness Stunt (On your toes) that gives a blanket +2 to initiative. Which is why I limited the Bonus to Handguns but add an Attack Bonus to compensate for the restriction.

I like that Trick Shot stunt though...that could be very useful...

[bobjob]

The problem with that version of Gunslinger is that there is already an Alertness Stunt (On your toes) that gives a blanket +2 to initiative. Which is why I limited the Bonus to Handguns but add an Attack Bonus to compensate for the restriction.

Ok then, how about this:

Gunslinger (Guns); Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately is legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you may substitute your Guns skill for Alertness to determine Initiative and you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat.

[Ren]

I like it!

[Katarn]

Ok then, how about this:

Gunslinger (Guns); Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately is legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you may substitute your Guns skill for Alertness to determine Initiative and you gain +2 to your initiative for the first round of combat.

Rename Han Shot First.

[bobjob]

Rename Han Shot First.

Where is my Like button? Damnit, I'm not on Facebook.

[bobjob]

Alternately, you could do this:

Gunslinger (Guns); Your ability to draw and shoot from the hip accurately is legendary; With a one-handed and holstered handgun you may substitute your Guns skill for Alertness to determine Initiative and you do not gain the -1 from the Supplemental action for drawing your weapon and firing in the same round so long as you do so on your Initiative. As a matter of fact, you gain +1 to your roll to hit for the first round only.

The way I see it, you're changing the alertness trapping and then giving a 2 shift effect. Maybe that is OP though, I dunno.