Author Topic: Aspects Workshop  (Read 5531 times)

Offline devonapple

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2011, 10:27:32 PM »
If I started getting compels that regularly, I think I'd be so happy I'd start rolling around in fat chips naked.

My players tend to have between 2 and 5 Fate Point chips in front of them at any given time, except one who rolls terribly, and tends to spend them as soon as he gets them.
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Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2011, 10:34:33 PM »
My players tend to have between 2 and 5 Fate Point chips in front of them at any given time, except one who rolls terribly, and tends to spend them as soon as he gets them.

I usually have two or three in front of me, but that's due to RL bonuses I get like wearing costumes.  Then once the session starts, I don't use any until the last fight of the session usually.

Once we start getting compels more often, I will probably be using them a lot for alertness checks.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Funge

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2011, 10:39:11 PM »
In the aspect suggestions that you said did not have a choice, there is still a choice there.  For instance, if someone came looking for Marty, you could hide.

Take this one for example, then:  He could be fairly easily blackmailed since he plays both sides.  If there is a choice involved here, it is definitely on the metagame level.  The player can maybe opt out of being blackmailed, but as the book points out, it's kind of lame just to shoot down some story bits.  The only options I see on the character level still involve his life getting seriously complicated, which is still compel-worthy.  And even on the meta level, the difference between what's a compel and what's just story is hazy at best.

Sorry, I've got more to say, but have to run off to work.

Offline noclue

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2011, 03:32:31 AM »
I don't think there's a need to differentiate between Compels that are about what the character does and those about what the Character is. Compels are always between player and GM, even when the GM is compelling a character behavior. Compels that present Characters with complicated situations based on their Aspects can be an awesome driver of the story. And yes, the player has the option of buying them off. Is it lame to buy off a compel like the one you present about being blackmailed? Sometimes. But Compels are where Fate GMs share story control with the players. Is that always easy and flawlessly executed? No. Do players and GMs sometimes have different ideas about where the fun lies? Sure. Sometimes you throw out a Compel and it fizzles, so you move on to the next one until something pops. But the question in my mind is if everyone agrees that it is truly lame to buy off the Compel, why is the player buying it off?

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2011, 04:21:08 AM »
Those last couple bring up a question I have about aspects.  The book suggests, in the "GM-driven compels" section on YS101-102, that sometimes there will be plot complication compels that don't really involve character choices.  The example given is that the PC's brother shows up beaten and bloody on the PC's doorstep.  Being a compel, there is a PLAYER choice involved--the example has the player spend a fate point to avoid the compel and call an ambulance to go deal with more pressing matters.  But how often does a situation like this crop up in someone's game not in the form of a compel?  Dramatic things happen constantly in games, and I'd think it would feel strange to present them in the form of compels.  In other words, I'm not quite understanding how one would utilize compels that don't involve character choice.  Here's a fate point to get your character to do something appropriately stupid makes sense, but here's a fate point for something to happen TO you doesn't to me.  Anybody have experience doing things this way?  And if so, how do you distinguish between compels of this sort and story-driven drama at the table?

Well, like I gave an example, a guy's enemy of the police force is in charge of a crime scene or case would be their ASPECT making life more difficult.  The character doesn't make that happen with a choice and probably can't get that undone by any action (not easily anyhow).  There's a player choice there potentially where he can say "no, I don't like that" (which can easily be lame, mind you), or say "serendipity means this isn't a problem this time around...he just doesn't see me."

This isn't simply dramatic stuff, it is things that make a character's life more difficult (and should make a player's life at the table more fun).  If someone is trying to kill the character because they are his arch-nemesis, then that's making his life more difficult.  Yeah, maybe you don't have a session planned out without this guy going after the character, but that makes it all the bigger of a compel.  (That's the sort of compel a player should always accept).  This is one reason why a player should be very happy with all of their aspects and how they can be compelled.  It is very important that these compels are things they want to see as part of the game story.  Ideally, from what I gather of the system, players should be negotiating exactly how to implement a compel a lot, lot, lot more often than buying out of a compel.

If the player in your OP isn't happy being a shady criminal with the difficulties that entails, for instance, then he should probably be a bit redesigned so he doesn't have to deal with compels along those lines (of course, the character might find it really annoying).  Similarly, if we look at Harry as a character, his player should be quite happy with all the compels he gets to shoot his mouth off to annoy people...because that should be the sort of thing the player wants to see and deal with.  Similarly, we could imagine Harry with an aspect "Queen Mab is interested in me" later on, and that would mean the player WANTS to deal with the difficulties that entails (and he'll get fate points for those difficulties coming up, even if they are the basis of a session or story-arc).

If a player is often buying out of difficulties from a particular aspect, that's probably a sign they actually don't like it.  Someone trying to play a Harry-like character might just enjoy keeping his tongue in check a lot in an actual game, or maybe just prefers blowing Winter to smithereens rather than having deals with them.  When something like that comes up, it is a good idea to sit down with the player, look at those aspects, and figure out what they might be replaced with that he would enjoy.

Offline Funge

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2011, 09:36:10 PM »
I don't think there's a need to differentiate between Compels that are about what the character does and those about what the Character is. Compels are always between player and GM, even when the GM is compelling a character behavior. Compels that present Characters with complicated situations based on their Aspects can be an awesome driver of the story. And yes, the player has the option of buying them off. Is it lame to buy off a compel like the one you present about being blackmailed? Sometimes. But Compels are where Fate GMs share story control with the players. Is that always easy and flawlessly executed? No. Do players and GMs sometimes have different ideas about where the fun lies? Sure. Sometimes you throw out a Compel and it fizzles, so you move on to the next one until something pops. But the question in my mind is if everyone agrees that it is truly lame to buy off the Compel, why is the player buying it off?

OK.  With you so far.  I don't actually have too much a problem with this side of the metagamed compel equation.  If we're using this sort of compel in the game, I can be offered a fate point by the GM to accept a situation (or we can negotiate it).  But what still gets me is the realm of self compels.  If I see a story-related dilemma pop up that looks like a consequence of my character's defining points, in other words one of his aspects, do I push for a fate point?  That just seems weird to me, and I don't see myself doing it.  Should I be?

If some bruisers show up, sent by someone I pissed off last session because of my Smart Mouth aspect, do I try to claim it as a compel?  Do you GMs out there run things like that, or would that annoy you?

Offline Funge

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2011, 09:56:01 PM »
If a player is often buying out of difficulties from a particular aspect, that's probably a sign they actually don't like it.  Someone trying to play a Harry-like character might just enjoy keeping his tongue in check a lot in an actual game, or maybe just prefers blowing Winter to smithereens rather than having deals with them.  When something like that comes up, it is a good idea to sit down with the player, look at those aspects, and figure out what they might be replaced with that he would enjoy.

Negotiation sounds all right, and I'm fine with the intent of the character's aspects.  I love getting him into those types of trouble.  I'm mostly just trying to make sure the aspects function well for that, which is where I run into confusion regarding the metagame compels and especially self-compels regarding same.  (See my last post above.)

Offline Drachasor

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2011, 10:55:15 PM »
Negotiation sounds all right, and I'm fine with the intent of the character's aspects.  I love getting him into those types of trouble.  I'm mostly just trying to make sure the aspects function well for that, which is where I run into confusion regarding the metagame compels and especially self-compels regarding same.  (See my last post above.)

Technically, all compels are metagame compels.  A player can roleplay it as an inner conflict, but ultimately it is about what the player wants to have happen in all cases.  I'm not sure you should make a big distinction between various compel types in this manner.  The whole system is meant to be viewed from a meta-game perspective.  It's kind of like playing a game of Universalis where each person has special rights to a character (and there's also a GM) -- err, assuming you've ever played that game.  In any case, the system is designed so that the humans playing have a lot of ability to make the story go where they want or at least HOW they want.  That's what it is most adept at by far, imho.

Offline noclue

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2011, 07:36:52 AM »
If some bruisers show up, sent by someone I pissed off last session because of my Smart Mouth aspect, do I try to claim it as a compel?  Do you GMs out there run things like that, or would that annoy you?

If I'd already been paid for the Smart Mouth aspect when I pissed off that person last session, I wouldn't angle for another Fate when the bruisers show up. If bruisers show up because of some person I pissed off in my back story, I'm holding my hand out. I may not get paid, but that shit is a compel.

Offline newtinmpls

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Re: Aspects Workshop
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2011, 08:19:19 AM »
As a new GM, I'm happy to see this thread. I don't use FATE points enough, I think. I'd rather start erring on too much/too generous.

Last game a person with "feeds stray animals" approached a guard dog with beef jerky; went well, but could have been dangerous, so that should have been worth a FATE point.

Dian