An Intelligently Designed Body

[bitterpill]

Powers:
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.

[bitterpill]

Quote author=bibliophile20 link=topic=24198.msg1025437#msg1025437 date=1297403713]
The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.
[/quote]

Would Gross Physical Trauma include mythic strength or Supernatural Strength damage as there both at about the level of projectile car damage which would kill any normal human NPC in an instant and involves incredible amounts of Physical Trauma each hit.

[Drachasor]

I have two thoughts about this.

First, don't do this to a PC. Involuntary changes to reproductive organs is super close to rape, and that's one thing to avoid in your games at all costs. Seriously.

Second, that'd be an amazing improvement. Human children are essentially born several months before they should be so that their heads don't kill their mother during birth. It's one of the trade-offs of having a proportionally large brain for our size combined with bipedalism. If there were a different exit from the womb, pregnancy could last several months longer, which would have an amazingly positive impact on the newborn. The result would be vastly reduced infant mortality and probably a sizeable jump in physical and cognitive development.

1.  Yes, really good point.

2.  I know!  (Which is the only reason it seemed amusing to me, since it would really be a huge improvement).

[Drachasor]

The Catch [+3] is gross physical trauma; a landslide is still a landslide, a hundred foot fall is still a hundred foot fall.

I don't think that's a +3.  In game terms, gross physical trauma sounds like something that would inflict a moderate consequence at least in a normal person.  Doing 6 or 7 stress isn't that easy, and it doesn't even have the decency to make attacks that come after that bypass the catch.

Consider what Hecatean Hags have:

The Catch [+1] is that once they take physical consequences, the Toughness goes away: they lose the extra stress boxes if they have a Mild physical consequence, and lose the benefits of the ability entirely once they’ve taken something moderate or worse.

This sounds like a similar catch overall, maybe even harder to implement in a way that matters in a fight.

[Warpmind]

As a side note, this guy could actually be an awesome Good Guy - if he only does self-improvement, he's in the clear as far as the Laws are concerned; transforming oneself is not forbidden, after all, and a "Be All That You Can Be" attitude, or perhaps the Olympic Motto (Citius, Altius, Fortius) as an Aspect could make him a formidable ally...

[Moriden]

As a side note, this guy could actually be an awesome Good Guy - if he only does self-improvement, he's in the clear as far as the Laws are concerned; transforming oneself is not forbidden, after all, and a "Be All That You Can Be" attitude, or perhaps the Olympic Motto (Citius, Altius, Fortius) as an Aspect could make him a formidable ally...

Playing a biomancer in the wild as it where. i can attest to how hard it is to keep them "on the good side" it helps if you make their trouble aspect something that tethers them to the lightside.

[bibliophile20]

I don't think that's a +3.  In game terms, gross physical trauma sounds like something that would inflict a moderate consequence at least in a normal person.  Doing 6 or 7 stress isn't that easy, and it doesn't even have the decency to make attacks that come after that bypass the catch.

Consider what Hecatean Hags have:

The Catch [+1] is that once they take physical consequences, the Toughness goes away: they lose the extra stress boxes if they have a Mild physical consequence, and lose the benefits of the ability entirely once they’ve taken something moderate or worse.

This sounds like a similar catch overall, maybe even harder to implement in a way that matters in a fight.

I was basically thinking that bullets don't bother him as much.  Getting massaged by an ogre's grapple?  That'll hurt.  Or, to put it another way, he's still flesh and bone and thus vulnerable to the Chunky Salsa Rule: "Any situation that would reduce a character's head to the consistency of chunky salsa dip is fatal, regardless of other rules."

But, yeah, that might only be worth a +2.  Being able to shrug off bullets and blades a bit more effectively is one thing; most people won't think of dropping pieces of the local architecture on you.  But that sort of thing is a time honored classic method of dealing with enemies, so it is still a fairly common approach, especially when dealing with PCs, hence the +2.

As a side note, this guy could actually be an awesome Good Guy - if he only does self-improvement, he's in the clear as far as the Laws are concerned; transforming oneself is not forbidden, after all, and a "Be All That You Can Be" attitude, or perhaps the Olympic Motto (Citius, Altius, Fortius) as an Aspect could make him a formidable ally...

He is a formidable ally--to a mob boss.  While the concept of a solely self-improving biomancer is certainly a valid one, this guy sees absolutely nothing wrong with granting "upgrades" to those that fall into his clutches. 

[EldritchFire]

Have you thought about giving him Feeding Dependency? It could be akin to the ghouls where he needs "replacement parts" when he uses too much of his "upgrades."

Just a thought.

-EF

[bibliophile20]

Have you thought about giving him Feeding Dependency? It could be akin to the ghouls where he needs "replacement parts" when he uses too much of his "upgrades."

Just a thought.

-EF

No, but I might give it to some of his test subjects...  hmm...

[Drachasor]

I was basically thinking that bullets don't bother him as much.  Getting massaged by an ogre's grapple?  That'll hurt.  Or, to put it another way, he's still flesh and bone and thus vulnerable to the Chunky Salsa Rule: "Any situation that would reduce a character's head to the consistency of chunky salsa dip is fatal, regardless of other rules."

Everyone is vulnerable to that though.  There's nothing in the Toughness abilities that changes that (except perhaps Physical Immunity).  Head getting turned into Chunky Salsa means you are dead (unless we are having fun with flavoring enemy attacks), and there aren't any powers that fix that (again, save perhaps physical immunity).

I don't think this catch is that well defined.  A bullet can cause immense trauma for instance.  Are you going to use the number of shifts of effect the attack has as a base (so if an attack would do say 5+ stress of damage before toughness-based armor goes into effect, then it satisfies the catch), or what system will you use to determine whether something satisfies this?  I think it needs to be clearer than what you have.  Someone with a lot of toughness can be considered like Superman...stuff that would turn your head or my head into Chunky Salsa wouldn't even give him a concussion*.   This is LITERALLY TRUE, Supes has something like 5 endurance, Mythic Toughness -- AT LEAST, probably higher, so that's 10 Stress Boxes and 3 armor.  You or me is probably average, 2 stress boxes, so a hit of 14 stress kills us and makes us even uglier than we were (I'm talking real ugly!).  For Supes he marks off a 9 box and takes a minor consequence which he then shakes off his next turn...and that's assuming he doesn't dodge it any better than you or me.  That's part of why I think this is fuzzy and needs to be defined clearly in some fashion...probably in terms of stress the attack deals.

[bibliophile20]

How'sabout this: any attack with a Weapon:3 or higher; that's into shotgun and sledgehammer territory, which is what I had in mind.

[BumblingBear]

How'sabout this: any attack with a Weapon:3 or higher; that's into shotgun and sledgehammer territory, which is what I had in mind.

That sounds ok to me.

It's still really powerful, but considering a basic attack by a ghoul is weapon: 4, it's not like weapon: 3+ is all that uncommon.