Sponcered Magic ideas.

[arete]

My wizards wanted some mechanical differences because they felt the fluff was not enough for them.  I told them they could take 1 sponcered magic like kremliar (sp?), but for a legal stuff like wards.  I figured I would require them to put 1 point of specialization toward their choice before paying th 2 refresh for the sponcered magic.

Thoughts?

[Moriden]

Tagging this post so i can remember to make a comprehensive post tomorrow.

[Malckuss]

I'm unsure of the need to add a secondary mechanical flare; why not just hammer down what their "sponsored flavor" is as per the guidelines? what did they want to do with the rules they couldn't/weren't comfortable with?

[arete]

The major complaint is that they are both mechanicly the same.  They perform pretty much thbe same with the system, but with huge fluffy differences.  I would like to say that I believe that issue is specific to my group, and not exacly what I want to discuss here.

I want to focus on usng the sponcered magic for necromancy and applying it to other areas of tham.  In my current case we are working out this sponcered magic to be a greater understanding of neromacy.  Likely to result in something like accessing the akishic (sp) record for fluffy.

I would assume if necro can do it all areas can do it, and it should not have to be just evil people.

[toturi]

akishic (sp) record

Akashic?

[arete]

Ty.   I spell like crap, and my phone does not spell check.

[Wyrdrune]

I don't know if I understand the question right...

Your wizards want sponsored magic but something wardens would approve?

Find or invent some benefactor (god, mythological being, loa, whatever) that is known for protection or some other noble goals.

I like inventing sponsored magics - my players ran into two possibilities in the past (one found a tome of azathoth, that would have allowed him to do sponsored magic, but it was too outsiderish for him (and right he was) and another player got an offer to be sponsored by the Baba Yaga) and will run into a few new sponsors in the future.

Speak with the players and make up your own stuff/sponsors.

[arete]

hmm let me try to be more specific.  Sorry for not being as direct as I could be.

I see kemmierian necro has more of a specialization, and not having a big sponsor.   I figure using the example kemmierian necromancy it seems likely that anyone can create a "sponsored magic" that allows a wizard to further specialize in a field of tham.  I also think it would be possible to make these types of specialization without becoming a lawbreaker.  

[toturi]

hmm let me try to be more specific.  Sorry for not being as direct as I could be.

I see kemmierian necro has more of a specialization, and not having a big sponsor.   I figure using the example kemmierian necromancy it seems likely that anyone can create a "sponsored magic" that allows a wizard to further specialize in a field of tham.  I also think it would be possible to make these types of specialization without becoming a lawbreaker.  

So you are creating a Sponsored Magic that functions for other prefix-mancy in the same way Kemmlerian Necromancy works for necromancy? Is this what you are saying?

[arete]

yes. 

[Warpmind]

Well, I can certainly see something like a Biomancy-oriented (restricted to self-improvement) Sponsorship from the old Greek Pantheon - the larger-than-life Greek Heroes of old, yaknow...

...Or, oh, man, a Scion of Hephaestus with Sponsored Magic (themed to Craftsmanship/manufacturing industry/that sort of thing) and oodles of Refinement (additional item slots)... For example.

[Moriden]

Okay theres a fairly simple method for changing or making new forms of sponsored magic. There are four categories that you need to decide on. Fluff, Standard benefits, bonus power, and cost.

Fluff: determines who/what the sponsor is, this is where you write down weather its a place of power a creature, or some internal understanding of magic.

Standard Benefits: You probably shouldnt muck around with this.  Its also important to remember that if the player is allowed to take sponsor debt the sponsor must have an agenda even if its just the tendency of death magic to push you towards breaking that particular law. [Remember that no sponsor agenda means no sponsor debt and no temporary access.]

I am going to arbitrarily assign numbers to each of these bonuses.

Bonus power:  This is the part that most people get exited about. examples include, reducing the effectiveness of a specific type of creatures toughness powers [1], reducing the effectiveness of all creatures toughness powers [2], +1 [power or control] and complexity to a specific type of thaumaturgy [1-2 if it aplies to more then one type of magic ie hellfire aplieing to any damaging spell.]. The ability to use a specific thaumaturgical schools complexity bonus on evocations that fit the theme [1], specific types of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [1-2 particularly broad themes should cost 2], the ability to serve as a commen form of catch [1]. and intellectus [2].


Cost: if the sponsor can only be accessed occasionally either because its a place of power or some other reason the gm agees with reduce the cost by one. I have gone through and checked all of the sample forms of sponsored magic and they do conform to these arbitrary numbers.

So pick your fluff, don't mess with the standard benefits except to decide weather sponsor debt is in play for that type,  and pick 4 points worth of benefit, if you would like to take five increase the overall cost of sponsored magic by one, larger packages are likely a bad idea.



Here is a link to one i created a little while ago. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24011.0.html
note that it has, +1 to a thaumaturgical school [1], thaum as evocation [2 broad theme], and the ability to use a thaum specialization as a control bonus for some spells [1].

[luminos]

I like Moriden's breakdown, but not the cost assessment.  I'd make the cost options include: access to The Ritual for the sponsors theme [1], access to Channeling for sponsors element [1].  Then you can apply the standard rebate of -1 if you have one of the previous two costs, but also have Thaumaturgy or Evocation with the character.

[devonapple]

Let me see if I have properly assembled all of the factors (I did some editing as well):

Fluff:
Determines who/what the sponsor is: this is where you write down whether it is a place of power, a creature, or some internal understanding of magic.

Standard Benefits:

• Ability to take sponsor debt to invoke an Aspect for spellcasting without spending a Fate Point [free]
• Access to Rituals for the sponsor's theme [1]
• Access to Channeling for sponsor's element [1]
• Refinement, to cover the focus item slots normally granted by Thaumaturgy [1] - if you already have Thaumaturgy, you do not get this - instead you get a rebate of 1 Refresh - you still get the focus item slots for Thaumaturgy
• Refinement, to cover the focus item slots normally granted by Evocation [1] - if you already have Evocation , you do not get this - instead you get a rebate of 1 Refresh - you still get the focus item slots for Evocation

(This is just a different perspective on the existing rules, whereby you pay [4] for Sponsored magic, but take the standard rebate of -1 to -2 if you already have Thaumaturgy and/or Evocation with the character)

You probably shouldn’t muck around with this.  It is also important to remember that if the player is allowed to take sponsor debt the sponsor must have an agenda even if it is just the tendency of death magic to push you towards breaking that particular law (remember that no sponsor agenda means no sponsor debt and no temporary access).

Bonus powers:
These additional components are purchased in addition to the standard Sponsored Magic package. Examples include:

• Reducing the effectiveness of a specific type of creature's toughness powers [1]
• Reducing the effectiveness of all creature’s toughness powers [2]
• Bonus of +1 (power or control) and complexity to a specific type of thaumaturgy [1]
• Bonus of +1 (power or control) and complexity to more than one type of magic (i.e., hellfire applying to any damaging spell) [2]
• The ability to use a specific thaumaturgical school's complexity bonus on evocations that fit the theme [1]
• Specific types of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [1]
• Broad types or themes of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [2]
• The ability to serve as a common form of catch [1]
• Intellectus [2]

Limitation:
If the sponsor can only be accessed occasionally - either because it is a place of power or some other reason the GM agrees with - reduce the cost by one.

Examples of Sponsored Magic:

Seelie 4
*Reducing the effectiveness of a specific type of creature's toughness powers [1]
*Broad types or themes of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [2]
*Access to Channeling for sponsor's element [1]

Unseelie 4
*Reducing the effectiveness of a specific type of creature's toughness powers [1]
*Broad types or themes of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [2]
*Access to Channeling for sponsor's element [1]

Kemmlerian Necromancy 4
*Bonus of +1 (power or control) and complexity to more than one type of magic (i.e., hellfire applying to any damaging spell) [2]
*Specific types of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [1]
*The ability to use a specific thaumaturgical school's complexity bonus on evocations that fit the theme [1]

Helffire 4
*Bonus of +1 (power or control) and complexity to more than one type of magic (i.e., hellfire applying to any damaging spell) [2]
*Access to Rituals for the sponsor's theme [1]
*Access to Channeling for sponsor's element [1]


Soulfire 5
*Reducing the effectiveness of all creature’s toughness powers [2]
*Broad types or themes of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [2]
*The ability to serve as a common form of catch [1]
*Access to Channeling for sponsor's element

• this is zero because it already gives you all forms of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds so a specific element for channeling is redundant.

Soulfire's base cost of 5 shows that it has one more point than most.

Example place of power   3
*Intellectus [2]
*Bonus of +1 (power or control) and complexity to a specific type of thaumaturgy [1]
*Specific types of thaumaturgy at evocation speeds [1]
*If the sponsor can only be accessed occasionally - either because it is a place of power or some other reason the GM agrees with - reduce the cost by one.

[arete]

Thanks you,  this is really helpful.  Looks like I was within the scoop of these rules.