Yes, A Free Tag Can Invoke For Effect

[devonapple]

I am wrong on the Internet! Official Word of Fred is that, yes, a "free tag" can be used to Invoke for Effect." My sincere apologies for being so stubbornly wrong on the threads in which this came up. Mea culpa.

Per Fred: "A tag is an invoke (tag just means free invoke); an invoke can be done as an invoke for effect; an invoke triggers a compel, which is run between the GM and the target."

[ScottMcG]

So not only can you invoke for effect for free with a tag, but you can also compel for "free" and the GM acts in your stead from the fate point economics standpoint of a compel?

I am wrong on the Internet! Official Word of Fred is that, yes, a "free tag" can be used to Invoke for Effect." My sincere apologies for being so stubbornly wrong on the threads in which this came up. Mea culpa.

Per Fred: "A tag is an invoke (tag just means free invoke); an invoke can be done as an invoke for effect; an invoke triggers a compel, which is run between the GM and the target."

[My Dark Sunshine]

I very much approve of this.

[infusco]

So not only can you invoke for effect for free with a tag, but you can also compel for "free" and the GM acts in your stead from the fate point economics standpoint of a compel?

An Invoke is not the same thing as a Compel. But it is a blurry line. I'm hoping for clarification.

LATER EDIT: Oh my bad ... I just reread the above statement. That'll teach me to post without sufficient caffeine
"A tag is an invoke (tag just means free invoke); an invoke can be done as an invoke for effect; an invoke triggers a compel, which is run between the GM and the target."

[Ophidimancer]

Yay!  Can we archive this somewhere?

[Drachasor]

Hmm, that can make maneuvers crazy-powerful.

[Sanctaphrax]

Only if the GM allows them to be so.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear this.

[AlexFallad]

Sooo

Andy and Bob vs. Charlie in a zone (Scene Aspect-Isolated Farm)

Andy uses Alertness to Declare "Wow, a Dried Up Well Covered By Rotting 2 By 4s is right over there!" X manuevers (Fists vs. whatever) to put Knocked Off-Balance on Charlie and Bob subsequently tags to invoke for effect...well, let's just say Charlie is going for a trip, and it ain't to the Bahamas...

[bobjob]

Sooo

Andy and Bob vs. Charlie in a zone (Scene Aspect-Isolated Farm)

Andy uses Alertness to Declare "Wow, a Dried Up Well Covered By Rotting 2 By 4s is right over there!" X manuevers (Fists vs. whatever) to put Knocked Off-Balance on Charlie and Bob subsequently tags to invoke for effect...well, let's just say Charlie is going for a trip, and it ain't to the Bahamas...

I never liked Charlie anyway. Good riddance.

[ScottMcG]

Could you provide the context in which Fred made that statement?  I'm a little unclear about what he means by "an invoke triggers a compel".

I am wrong on the Internet! Official Word of Fred is that, yes, a "free tag" can be used to Invoke for Effect." My sincere apologies for being so stubbornly wrong on the threads in which this came up. Mea culpa.

Per Fred: "A tag is an invoke (tag just means free invoke); an invoke can be done as an invoke for effect; an invoke triggers a compel, which is run between the GM and the target."

[devonapple]

Could you provide the context in which Fred made that statement?  I'm a little unclear about what he means by "an invoke triggers a compel".

An Invoke for Effect can sometimes blur the line and act like a Compel (I Invoke for Effect my opponent's "Broken Leg" Aspect - he falls to the ground and gives up the fight). In this case, it becomes basically a Compel, to the detriment of the opponent, which is when Fate Points usually need to change hands.

So, if you are going to "free tag" that Aspect to Invoke for Effect, the GM basically pays the opponent the Fate Point on your behalf if it becomes more like a Compel.

[bitterpill]

So if you used a might or fist manouvre to do a judo throw on an enemy and give them the temparary aspect 'thrown' or 'shaken' I could then invoke the aspect so that they have to waste the next turn picking themself up or centering themselves is that about right?

[ScottMcG]

The thing I'm looking for clarification on is centered around how "trigger" is used in the sentence.  This makes it seem like the invoke-for-effect is not "acting like a compel", rather it's spawning a compel that is independent of the invoke-for-effect. I'm not sure of all the implications of one or the other, but if the invoke-for-effect is not simply acting as a compel, and the compel is strictly between the GM and the target, then it seems that the player is excluded from escalating the fate point bid beyond the first "freebie" as part of the tag.  So that's why I was asking for the context of the quotation from Fred.

An Invoke for Effect can sometimes blur the line and act like a Compel (I Invoke for Effect my opponent's "Broken Leg" Aspect - he falls to the ground and gives up the fight). In this case, it becomes basically a Compel, to the detriment of the opponent, which is when Fate Points usually need to change hands.

So, if you are going to "free tag" that Aspect to Invoke for Effect, the GM basically pays the opponent the Fate Point on your behalf if it becomes more like a Compel.

[bitterpill]

I think in the example given if you invoked for effect the aspect broken leg you could make the enemy fall to the ground, but you couldn't stop the enemy getting right back up again.

[devonapple]

So that's why I was asking for the context of the quotation from Fred.

Fred was answering this question:

Assuming someone has a legitimate opportunity to "free tag" an Aspect they have discovered, is Invoke for Effect one of the available options? Or is that "free tag" only good for a +2 or a reroll?

If there are situations when Invoke for Effect is eligible for the "free tag," where can one draw the line between an Invoke for Effect and a Compel?

As I see it:
Scene Aspects: Invoke for Effect if it benefits you, Compel if it hinders an NPC
NPC Aspects: Invoke for Effect if it benefits you, Compel if it hinders an NPC
Personal Aspect: Invoke for Effect if it benefits you

To which he replied:

Short form: yes.

Longer: A tag is an invoke (tag just means free invoke); an invoke can be done as an invoke for effect; an invoke triggers a compel, which is run between the GM and the target.