What Can My Character Trade To the Winter Crone For An Unmaking?

[Emburii]

My wizard character has taken responsibility for a loup-garou,  either containing it or (hopefully) finding a way to remove the curse.  Our GM has broken with canon and one of the characters in the party is the current Winter Knight, who has manuevered my character into going to see the the Winter Crone and hopefully making a bargain (the loup-garou had previously been in the 'care' of the Winter Court).

Right now she's looking at trading her power for am Unmaking, but I'm open to other suggestions.  Children are not an option, nor is anything else that would impede another's free will.  But if anyone can figure something out, it's going to be this board.  Thanks!

[bitterpill]

I recon he might be able to trade an unmaking for a 'very big favour' which you could count as a lot of sponsor debt or a quest, though the quest would definatly be near impossible and would probably lead to a hijacking of your plot and/or PC death.

[My Dark Sunshine]

A Wizard ally could be far more useful with his powers, then simply stripping a Wizard of them. Perhaps servitude? (Would impede her/his free-will, not another's). Bare in mind the Fae as a whole are a rather manipulative group, they'd likely want something that would further their own goals.

Saying that, I could see why being indebted to the Fae-court might be something you'd wish to avoid as a player. But then so is loosing your power. If one player is already a Winter Knight, it would hardly be the end of the world if you were forced to be on their side, instead of just choosing to do so.

Perhaps the classic, 'a favour' case scenario. Plenty of opportunity for the Faery to send you on a seemingly innocent quest, which ends up leading your character through a metaphorical tunnel of darkness and bad choices, with very little way out without doing something immoral; potentially tainting your soul (lawbreaking). Although, there usually is a way out of said situations, its just finding them.

The situation you're in sounds really cool though, so many possibilities, kudos to your GM & Group.

[wyvern]

A wizard's power is not inconsiderable - but there's a stronger power involved in this setup: the loup-garou itself.  I could see a deal where you traded off that power for the ability to remove it from its current subject.  ...Of course, then the winter court would have their own pet indestructible killing machine, and might well decide to do something horribly evil with it (like dump its power on the winter knight.  Or you.  Hm.  Maybe this isn't such a great plan after all.)

Other obvious options include lifespan; perhaps you get to keep your power, but trade away Wizard's Constitution.  In game terms, that's not a big deal - but in RP / character / personal terms, losing hundreds of years of potential life is huge.  This could manifest in at least two different ways - the character aging at a normal rate from here on, or the character keeping Wizard's Constitution but moving directly to a state of old age.

I'd also point out that - from an impeding free will perspective only - what's off the table is a child to be raised by the winter court; I could see them finding some advantage in the mere existence of a wizard-blooded changeling, even if they didn't get any direct influence in his/her upbringing.  (That's not to say that this couldn't / shouldn't be off the table anyway just because of what you'd be comfortable RPing, or for any other reason, of course.)

[Drachasor]

I'd go with Harry's method.  You owe her a favor, but if you don't like the one she proposes you can refuse it and she'll have to find something else.

[Emburii]

The problem with a favor is the way my GM envisions the Winter Crone; she is passive inevitability, not a power that is but a player that was.  She has little need for favors, to his mind, though he did just note that favors are interesting and he might be changing his mind on that.

Wyvern, I like the idea of just losing Wizard's Constitution and then going with a smaller favor, especially since that would still be very personally affecting (the character considers herself a warrior to the end, and the very real possibility of old age, of failing eyesight and creaking joints and general decrepitude and death in a cold bed instead of on the battlefield, would be just as terrible as loss of magical power.)  The old age idea is even more interesting... 

As for the situation overall, it is pretty interesting.  My only annoyance with it, even if she does give up her magic, is that I feel pressured into giving up her power for party cohesion because my GM is allowing and even indirectly encouraging someone to break the Laws of Magic...after they made my character a Warden in play.  Giving up her magic does obviate the need to either try to kill the guy or find excuses why she's never in scenes with him, but I do feel a touch bit miffed at having to make that choice even if it's a viable option for her in personality terms.

[Drachasor]

Then just work on developing a massive, magical counterspell ritual.  Undo the Loup Garou by yourself, keep it contained until then.  Removing a curse is not the same as altering someone directly...it's a gray area at worst.

[bibliophile20]

Just be prepared for the possibility that entity that laid down the curse in the first place might show up--you're undoing some of its best work, and some take exception to that. 

[bitterpill]

I suppose if the winter crone is about passive inevitablity then the only thing she might want is Memories or years, taking away wizards constitution does take away years, but I think wizards contitution is an effect of being surrounded by magic so taking it away might not work unless you take away the casting ability because it would be taking away an effect not a cause.

[wyvern]

Huh.  Personally, I'd expect someone who was dedicated enough to the Council and the Laws of Magic to become a Warden would be unlikely to give up on that sense of responsibility just because she lost her magic...

That really sounds like something that should be discussed out of game rather than trying to "fix" it by trading away your powers.
Maybe see if the GM is willing to arrange for the Lawbreaker to sign on with some other Power?  So he could end up as, for an example, a warlock in service to Winter where you may hate it, but you can't directly act against him due to the Accords.
Or, heck, find some way to work "Can't arrest and execute this guy" into what the Winter Crone demands of you - maybe his state is important in some future event that maintains the stability of the seasons?

There are a fair number of options for resolving this without having to kill anyone, but you really need to discuss it with the group and see what will work; it's possible that the GM hasn't even realized that they're setting things up for inter-PC conflict.  (Edit: or that someone else involved thinks that such conflict would be interesting plot or otherwise entertaining; can't discount different playstyles, after all.)

[bitterpill]

If you really want to go evil there is another option with dealing with Loup Garrou give him to the White Court Vampires or one of the Fae Courts. With incite emotion they probably could train him to be an effective pet who would only go on ocassional directed killing sprees rather than mass slaughter, they probably would even pay you quite well for such a useful tool. So Everyone would be a winner other than the poor dehumanised Loup Garrou and the best bit is you don't have to lose any power. 

[Emburii]

Huh.  Personally, I'd expect someone who was dedicated enough to the Council and the Laws of Magic to become a Warden would be unlikely to give up on that sense of responsibility just because she lost her magic...

She 'became' a Warden about the same way Dresden did; 'we're short on people, you're a warrior-type (even better, one who hasn't even come close to breaking any Laws), put on this cloak'.  So, being big on personal responsibility, she's tried to do her best with it.  At least giving up her power means she has (and I can claim) some sort of excuse that lets me pay attention to other three problems I've put on the character's plate. 
And I'm pretty sure both the GM and the other player are aware of the conflict, they like adversarial situations.  I don't, but I'm in the minority so I can't really force the issue.

I'm all right with the possibility of her giving up her power, it fits the character and can lead to some very interesting roleplay.  I'm not even really mad at why I have to make this sort of decision, I just wish I were a little more free to consider other options.

So, to sum up the suggestions so far that don't require huge morality shifts, favors or specifically Wizard's Constitution instead of the whole wizard package?  Anything else?

[Drachasor]

Like I said, don't do the trade.  Making a Loup Garou is something like a 32 or shifts at least...quite possibly more, but probably not more than 50 shifts.  You could theoretically counter it with a ritual.  This would require a lot of work, a lot of power, etc, etc.  You could flavor the dispel as causing the curse to decay and fade away, making it even quite appropriate for Winter for what it is worth.  In any case, there's no need to go ask Mother Winter for help; you DO have other options.  If you have the Loup Garou contained, then there's no reason why you can't take time to research how to undo it.

[wyvern]

And I'm pretty sure both the GM and the other player are aware of the conflict, they like adversarial situations.  I don't, but I'm in the minority so I can't really force the issue.

I'd still strongly suggest talking to them; explain that this adversarial situation isn't something you want to have to deal with in-game, and put out some suggestions for making it go away.  If they do like adversarial situations, it's entirely plausible that they don't realize you don't - I've certainly been in games where different people had different comfort levels for some things, and some of those have gone very badly indeed and would have benefited from more OOC discussion.  (Personal anecdote to be taken, of course, with the requisite grain of salt; I don't know the whole situation of your game and my advice, while well intentioned, may not always be entirely appropriate.)

So, to sum up the suggestions so far that don't require huge morality shifts, favors or specifically Wizard's Constitution instead of the whole wizard package?  Anything else?

There's actually one more thing I can think of here.  The Mothers work fairly closely together, right?  So, to get an Unmaking sufficient to take apart a loup garou curse, you might have to agree to balance that with a Making - some mighty feat of magic to bring about something new in the world.  What?  Well, that's up to you - but it needs to be on par with what you're asking them to destroy.  (Ok, so really this is just a special sub-case of favor / quest, but I still think it's a neat idea.)

Oh, and just as a side-note, I'd be interested in hearing how this actually goes in-game once you do get things worked out.

[jybil178]

Like I said, don't do the trade.  Making a Loup Garou is something like a 32 or shifts at least...quite possibly more, but probably not more than 50 shifts.  You could theoretically counter it with a ritual.  This would require a lot of work, a lot of power, etc, etc.  You could flavor the dispel as causing the curse to decay and fade away, making it even quite appropriate for Winter for what it is worth.  In any case, there's no need to go ask Mother Winter for help; you DO have other options.  If you have the Loup Garou contained, then there's no reason why you can't take time to research how to undo it.

Well... While it COULD be possible, the idea of it being done fairly easy would take away a lot of emphasis to the setting...  It would almost be equivalent to ((between book 4 and 5))

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Harry trying to "cure" Susan's condition.  The man spent so much time, allowing his entire life to revolve around this single cause, letting his entire life fall apart around him and he could never come close to figuring it out

.  And then the same man, goes on in a few books later, ((book 7, Dead Beat))

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to trap the Erkling, in his time, his moment when his power would equal that of the Queens themselves..

  Admittedly it was a few books later, but I think the point is still fairly valid..

The reason that Harry needed the original Unweaving, ((book 4, Summer Knight))

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wasn't just because a powerful stone enchantment was placed on Lily... While it was very powerful, it was more along the lines, that the enchantment for all purposes killed Lily.  Her body had been transformed into something it could not survive in.  Even if Harry could technically break the enchantment, Lily wouldn't have survived the process.. It took a creature of unknowable power, whose purpose is to undo all things when their time has come, to make the Unraveling, that could break the Enchantment on Lily, on such a pure level, that it would leave her alive, intact, and as if the Enchantment had never been placed on her to begin with

.

In order to remove a Loup-garou curse, would take a similar level of fine magic... I think your ball park figure of 50 shifts Might be in the area of breaking the curse, but it would practically be a raw attack on the curse itself, which would most likely Kill the man underneath..  You'd also be in danger of altering his self on some level, at the very least, easily breaking ground into law territory and black magic.