How many Consequences in all do you have?

[devonapple]

Armor does not count against Backlash (nor would any "mental armor" minimize the mental stress of spellcasting), though if the WIzard opted to let the spell energy escape as Fallout, then physical armor *might* apply to certain environmental affects, depending on how the GM defined it.

I will give you that the general text of the book is VERY unspecific with this.  I was never sure for the longest time, and maybe this isn't even a really for sure... Maybe the idea of what they wanted got scrambled somewhere..  But anywhere, off to citing...
Basically, in all these examples, and I could look for maybe a few more, they refer to the mental stress in Points, rather than a 1, 2, 3, or 4 ect,  stress hit, which is how they refer to taking stress through out the rest of the book.  It also never goes into bigger number examples using a higher mental stress hit.  All examples of going higher, are referred to using a consequence to help take off some of the stress.  Sorry >.<

I think I had originally been reading "points" the same as you are, but it was inconsistent with everything else in the book, so I realigned my interpretation so it more closely matched the way damage shifts work. We can theorize that it was a proofing error.

[jybil178]

Just to bring this back to Consequences for a second, certain Stunts give you additional, one track only, Consequences.

The two I was able to find quickly are:
Resilient Self-Image: You may take two additional mild mental consequences
No Pain, No Gain: You may take two additional mild physical consequences

So a wizard with a Resilient Self-Image could take three mild consequences to power his magic.  Four if he had a Superb Conviction.

Richard

Yeah, I've noticed that these have been changed, cause I keep hearing people say this.. The hard copy of the book as well as more recent PDFs have been updated, to show..

Resilient Self-Image: Your sense of self is strong, enabling you to endure more psychological punishment than most. When facing torture or other extreme interrogation techniques, You may take two additional mild mental consequences.

No Pain, No Gain has also changed. Just don't feel like quoting it at the moment, its been knocked down to a single mild consequence, and does not say in the stunt that it is stackable.


Something else of note, is that currently anyway, there are no cannon stunts that give you mental or social consequences, mild or otherwise.  I'm actually very curious if they just didn't put them in place cause No Pain, No Gain set a precedent, or if they believe it has room for being broken in the system...  I mean, every book does have to worry about silly problems, like word count... *shrug* I'd love a more official response to this, but I doubt my little old post will get any such attention...

[devonapple]

Something else of note, is that currently anyway, there are no cannon stunts that give you mental or social consequences, mild or otherwise.  I'm actually very curious if they just didn't put them in place cause No Pain, No Gain set a precedent, or if they believe it has room for being broken in the system...  I mean, every book does have to worry about silly problems, like word count... *shrug* I'd love a more official response to this, but I doubt my little old post will get any such attention...

They do encourage us to make up our own Stunts, so they may have left these as an exercise for the alert reader.

[jybil178]

Armor does not count against Backlash (nor would any "mental armor" minimize the mental stress of spellcasting), though if the WIzard opted to let the spell energy escape as Fallout, then physical armor *might* apply to certain environmental affects, depending on how the GM defined it.

I think I had originally been reading "points" the same as you are, but it was inconsistent with everything else in the book, so I realigned my interpretation so it more closely matched the way damage shifts work. We can theorize that it was a proofing error.

A proofing error is quite possible.  Another reason I'd like to get an official response or something on it.  At this point, my only two arguments are that the term is used in nearly every explanation on spellcasting I've found.  Technically it doesn't prove anything, as the entire magical section could have been overlooked on this one particular detail.... And btw, I may seem like i'm trying to be sarcastic, but I'm honestly not... I have a bad habit of being misunderstood at points like that...

The only other one, is one that I can't really say very well, and the more I think about it, Kinda fits more and more in line with harry Basically, as you begin to lose more and more of your mental stress, and you get closer to the bottom of the barrel, it would seem more likely that you spells wouldn't be getting more and more powerful.. But again, at the bottom of the barrel, when is Harry most dangerous at?

[devonapple]

The only other one, is one that I can't really say very well, and the more I think about it, Kinda fits more and more in line with harry Basically, as you begin to lose more and more of your mental stress, and you get closer to the bottom of the barrel, it would seem more likely that you spells wouldn't be getting more and more powerful.. But again, at the bottom of the barrel, when is Harry most dangerous at?

Exactly. I can see a caster desperately putting more shifts into spells in hopes of a quicker resolution to the conflict. It's a plausible justification for what I feel is a minor metagaming decision.

[Richard_Chilton]

Yeah, I've noticed that these have been changed, cause I keep hearing people say this.. The hard copy of the book as well as more recent PDFs have been updated, to show..

Resilient Self-Image: Your sense of self is strong, enabling you to endure more psychological punishment than most. When facing torture or other extreme interrogation techniques, You may take two additional mild mental consequences.

Darn - I'm either going to need to get around to getting the release PDFs or keep the books in easy reach.  That's one more area where they differ.

Richard

[sinker]

The big reason I would think that you deal with spellcasting stress the same as all other stress is that if you were taking four individual points of stress it would make it pointless to use consequences (which is a very clear option). For example if you were casting a spell that inflicted two stress on you (individually) then using a mild consequence would only be able to soak one of those, as each point of stress is essentially a separate attack. For that matter a moderate consequence would only soak one of those...

I figure it's a little vaguely written, however since it could go either way it's probably best to assume that it works the same way as everything else under the KISS principle.

As far as the backlash I figure it's a separate thing simply because it can be a separate kind of stress. Wouldn't make much sense if they were the same attack (essentially) but were mental (for the spell) and physical (for the backlash) stress.

And going back to Bear's post, if you used a consequence to soak a 1 stress casting, it would soak that one stress and then you're done. You can't save stress to fill up a consequence. Kinda worth it if you really need the spell and you are only using your mild, but usually not at all worth it.

[devonapple]

I've sent an email to Fred about the Mental Stress question, as well as to find out if I've been properly charging the Stress for Backlash situations. I will post any answer I receive.

[devonapple]

Okay, official Word of Fred is:

1) Spellcasting Mental Stress works the same as any other Stress, despite any perceived terminology difference (you only mark the one Stress box)
2) Mental Stress from casting a spell *is* separate from Mental Stress taken as Backlash, so they are two separate Mental Stress hits

Thank you, Fred!

[jybil178]

Oiii...  Really hate looking at something, and then realizing while it says one thing, it really is meant to be something else... >.<  I hate being right on the letter, but being wrong cause the letter was just done wrong, lol... Ahh well... more power to myself and the players... Just one head game after another, hahahaha

[jybil178]

pg. 251,
Example: Harry Dresden is beset by a
charging Red Court vampire intent on taking
his fool head off. He’s not really happy about
that, so he chooses to blast it off the planet with
a fire evocation.
Harry has a Conviction of Superb (+5)
and a Discipline of Good (+3). His player—
Jim—decides he doesn’t want to mess around
with this thing too much, so he chooses to
summon up 8 shifts of power for the spell.
Harry has a power specialization in fire magic,
so his Conviction is treated as Fantastic (+6)
for the purposes of the spell. That means that
casting this spell will give him a 3-stress mental
hit—one stress for everything up to 6, and then
two more to get to 8.

The ONLY time in the entire example of magic, that it talks in terms of a stress hit, rather than points and dots of stress damage... >.<  *sigh*

[Drachasor]

Okay, official Word of Fred is:

1) Spellcasting Mental Stress works the same as any other Stress, despite any perceived terminology difference (you only mark the one Stress box)
2) Mental Stress from casting a spell *is* separate from Mental Stress taken as Backlash, so they are two separate Mental Stress hits

Thank you, Fred!

Makes sense.  I was convinced that number 2 must be the case after thinking about it and your and Sinker's posts.  Having them be the same thing would make it way too expensive.

[devonapple]

Makes sense.  I was convinced that number 2 must be the case after thinking about it and your and Sinker's posts.  Having them be the same thing would make it way too expensive.

Depending on circumstances, it can actually be a *great* benefit to get that shot of stress all at once - it means you are more likely to be able to funnel it neatly and efficiently into one or more Consequence slots. The attrition of getting multiple 1- and 3-stress hits means you are occasionally "wasting" part of a Consequence. I can't come up with an illustration of how the numbers work, but trust me, we've gone over it in combat, and several times th eplayers would have benefited if I had let them take the Backlash and Spells stress as one self-contained hit.

[TheMouse]

One interesting effect of the way Consequences work is that you have some incentive to really dish out the hurt as you yourself get hurt.

By the time your stress track is full and you're missing your Mild Consequences, you take the same Consequence for a spell at (Conviction) shifts as you do for (Conviction +3). Then once that's gone, you take the same Consequence for (Conviction) shifts as you do for (Conviction +5). So, assuming you can actually control those shifts of power, when you're really hurt you'll tend to really throw your all into it.

[Drachasor]

Depending on circumstances, it can actually be a *great* benefit to get that shot of stress all at once - it means you are more likely to be able to funnel it neatly and efficiently into one or more Consequence slots. The attrition of getting multiple 1- and 3-stress hits means you are occasionally "wasting" part of a Consequence. I can't come up with an illustration of how the numbers work, but trust me, we've gone over it in combat, and several times th eplayers would have benefited if I had let them take the Backlash and Spells stress as one self-contained hit.

Eh, I think that would be the rarer circumstance though.  Usually I'd think you can manage perfectly well with consequences and boxes, adjusting as needed...especially if you save fate points or taggable aspects to adjust your discipline on the fly as needed.