Breath Weapons

[BumblingBear]

I think there are good arguments on every side of this debate, honestly.

This is why rules vary from campaign to campaign and ultimately thing like this are up the the GM's discretion.

If I were GMing, I'd rule that a PC who actually throws their breath weapon could get a strength modifier out of it, but it depends on what they throw.

Making fire hotter makes it more destructive-  not projecting it faster at a target.

Whereas if someone's "breath weapons" are icicles that they spit out of their mouth and then throw, adding a strength bonus would make sense.

::shrug::

[Drachasor]

I think there are good arguments on every side of this debate, honestly.

This is why rules vary from campaign to campaign and ultimately thing like this are up the the GM's discretion.

If I were GMing, I'd rule that a PC who actually throws their breath weapon could get a strength modifier out of it, but it depends on what they throw.

Making fire hotter makes it more destructive-  not projecting it faster at a target.

Whereas if someone's "breath weapons" are icicles that they spit out of their mouth and then throw, adding a strength bonus would make sense.

::shrug::

And for consistency, I'd say you should just allow strength then for any breath weapon, otherwise it strongly encourages players to focus on a description that allows that bonus rather than one that appeals to them aesthetically.

[devonapple]

As a thrown weapon, this doesn't seem to make sense.  BW is clearly written, imho, as shooting out a little projectile of some sort (my read anyhow), but I guess it is up to the GM.  If it allowed such attacks, it should say it explicitly, imho.

One could spit/throw/exude/launch a series of smaller projectiles.

[bitterpill]

Or just do flamethrower from your mouth though I would rate an actual flamethrower as +3 rather than +2

[UmbraLux]

Have to say I agree BW is worth more than Claws and not as much as Inhuman Strength.  I'd allow players some creative flexibility to make up for it.  Allowing area attacks, split targets, and suppressive fire as well as maneuvers and single target attacks goes a long way towards making it up.  Even sustained attacks might work.  That said, it would be up to the player to make it fit the story.

If it allowed...it should say it explicitly...

Have to say I take the opposite approach these days.  I don't have time for systems which try to create rules for every situation.

[bitterpill]

If you were GMing and set a dragon as a roadblock,how would you model a dragons fire breathing power, I wrote up a Dragon build which involved incite emotion, Mythic Toughness, Mythic Strength, Physicial Imunity (catch true herorism) but however  I look it breath weapon  at weapons 2 seems silly for an impossible road block NPC in the end i just used Sponsored Magic Dragon Fire. If you wanted to model a dragons fire as abreath weapon how would you do it.     

[BumblingBear]

If you were GMing and set a dragon as a roadblock,how would you model a dragons fire breathing power, I wrote up a Dragon build which involved incite emotion, Mythic Toughness, Mythic Strength, Physicial Imunity (catch true herorism) but however  I look it breath weapon  at weapons 2 seems silly for an impossible road block NPC in the end i just used Sponsored Magic Dragon Fire. If you wanted to model a dragons fire as abreath weapon how would you do it.     

You just arbitrarily wave your GM wand and say the Dragon's breath attack is a weapon 4 or weapon 5.

[Drachasor]

Have to say I take the opposite approach these days.  I don't have time for systems which try to create rules for every situation.

Not saying it should.  Random situations are covered by temporary, scene, and location aspects pretty well.  There are already rules for spray attacks though, and I don't see why it is crazy to expect it to say whether some supernatural weapon can use them or not.  Given that it seems you typically can't use them with Weapons (there's a stunt for melee weapons, for instance), seems like you wouldn't be able to with a breath weapon.

Anyhow, rather immaterial, I think...I had other stuff in that post, but everyone hates me and has ignored it *cries*

If you were GMing and set a dragon as a roadblock,how would you model a dragons fire breathing power, I wrote up a Dragon build which involved incite emotion, Mythic Toughness, Mythic Strength, Physicial Imunity (catch true herorism) but however  I look it breath weapon  at weapons 2 seems silly for an impossible road block NPC in the end i just used Sponsored Magic Dragon Fire. If you wanted to model a dragons fire as abreath weapon how would you do it.     

Have Strength powers add to Breath Weapon attacks, whatever form they might take, and this is covered nicely.  A Dragon with Supernatural Strength would have a Weapon 6 Breath Weapon.  Add in some of the optional stuff I proposed and it is worth 2 refresh, I think (and pretty cool to have a dragon that can make zone barriers and such even if it has no magic).

[vultur]

Upgrade options like Incite Emotion might be good
e.g.

Potent Breath [-1]: increases to Weapon:4
Vast Breath [-1, requires Potent Breath]: The breath weapon can be divided as a spray attack, or can act as a Weapon:2 attack affecting an entire zone

I agree Breath Weapon is a bit underpowered, it's not really a full refresh point better than Claws. (Given that Claws allows strength bonuses, I wonder if it really shouldn't be just a -1 ability?)

[Ala Alba]

I agree Breath Weapon is a bit underpowered, it's not really a full refresh point better than Claws. (Given that Claws allows strength bonuses, I wonder if it really shouldn't be just a -1 ability?)

Originally, Claws only gave a single extra damage shift (i.e. weapon: 1), however, the community argued that it was too weak for a [-1] refresh power.

[UmbraLux]

If you were GMing and set a dragon...how would you do it.     

I'd model fire breathing with a combination of breath weapon and fire channeling.  Breath weapon gives it a quick no stress attack and channeling gives it a far more powerful 'breath' attack.  I'd probably also come up with a few stunts / minor powers related to how it used fire. 

[vultur]

Originally, Claws only gave a single extra damage shift (i.e. weapon: 1), however, the community argued that it was too weak for a [-1] refresh power.

Oops, that was really badly worded. I meant, "given that Claws allows strength bonuses, maybe Breath Weapon isn't actually better -- lack of strength bonuses balancing the range -- so maybe Breath should be just -1." Not that Claws should cost more.

[sinker]

If you were GMing and set a dragon as a roadblock,how would you model a dragons fire breathing power, I wrote up a Dragon build which involved incite emotion, Mythic Toughness, Mythic Strength, Physicial Imunity (catch true herorism) but however  I look it breath weapon  at weapons 2 seems silly for an impossible road block NPC in the end i just used Sponsored Magic Dragon Fire. If you wanted to model a dragons fire as abreath weapon how would you do it.     

I'd quote Fred on this.

Bad guys? They cheat.

[Peteman]

I'd quote Fred on this.

Ironically, that was referring to a bad guy who was really bad at it, as he was missing a 1.5x Refinement slots.

[sinker]

Yeah, apparently Fred's bad guys cheat poorly.