Seelie / Unseeli Magic & Foci

[skippy71]

It doesn't specifically say that Seelie / Unseelie Magic powers give you foci, like the Sponsored Magic power does. While it is another kind of sponsored magic and is subject to it's limitations as described on page 287, it never actually specifies you get the 4 foci that you would get with another kind of sponsored magic. So - the question is - is this just an oversight in the rules? Are people giving their characters with Seelie Magic foci? I have a Dame of Spring in my game and am wondering whether or not to give her any.

On another note - I'm saying she is subject to the laws of magic in the fact that she'll lose refresh, etc if she breaks them, but the White Council is effectively powerless to enforce them in her case because of political issues, but they might try to intimidate her or push their weight around a little.

[Sanctaphrax]

That sounds like a good way to handle sponsored lawbreakers.

And I think that Seelie spellcasters should get four free focus slots.

[MijRai]

Your Story, page 183: "This also
affects whether or not Sponsored Magic gives
you any additional focus item slots. If you’re
paying full price, you get four focus item slots
with this ability."

So yes, Sponsored Magic users get foci. Seelie and Unseelie Magic are Sponsored, therefore they get foci. I also agree with you on the whole 'they get Lawbreaker, but the Council can't do anything about it' approach as well.

[skippy71]

Thanks for the replies... technically the character doesn't have the Sponsored Magic Power, they have Seelie Magic, which  behaves much like Sponsored Magic. I think it's just an oversight and will grant her 4 foci.

Also - I would rule that mortal spellcasters are subject to the laws of magic because they are mortal, it's not necessarily something that only matters to you if someone can enforce it. In addition to this - magic is pretty powerful in this game, so it's a game balance thing too.

[Tbora]

I agree Sponsored Magic users get foci as well, although I think that you don't get a Lawbreaker if you are given the order by your Queen as they are basically removing the choice out of your hands.You essentially are just a tool acting as an extension of their will, you can no more be responsible for your actions then a hammer can be for the hand that wields it.As Mab said to Dresden "You are MINE"

[MijRai]

Thanks for the replies... technically the character doesn't have the Sponsored Magic Power, they have Seelie Magic, which  behaves much like Sponsored Magic. I think it's just an oversight and will grant her 4 foci.

Also - I would rule that mortal spellcasters are subject to the laws of magic because they are mortal, it's not necessarily something that only matters to you if someone can enforce it. In addition to this - magic is pretty powerful in this game, so it's a game balance thing too.

Seelie Magic is Sponsored Magic. The Sponsor is the Summer Court. That is why it is under the Sponsored Magic portion of the spellcasting part of the books. They just have it writen out already.

[skippy71]

Ok, I think I'm done splitting hairs about the seelie vs sponsored magic powers and will grant her the foci, but I'm not sure about the fact that the mortal PC having no free will, even though they are knights/dames of the court. After all - they could choose to kill with a sword. I think they are still subject to the laws of magic as being PCs with choice (and not monsters with no free will), but you could play it differently in your game.

[Amseriah]

I disagree about the lawbreaker part.  The reason I do is that mortal magic comes entirely from your will.  Seelie magic may be channeled through you, but you aren't forcing your will on reality the way that a wizard does.  You are simply acting as a lens for forces that already exist in nature.  That is shown by the feel and themes of it.  If you were forcing your will upon reality you could use summer magic to make it snow, but you can't because no matter how many shifts you get off summer magic can only behave like summer magic.

[sinker]

I can see what you're saying about the seelie magic vs sponsored magic skippy, but I'd give em foci just because if you don't then they can always just go pick up Sponsored magic: Summer (also for four refresh) and get them anyway.

As for the lawbreaker I wouldn't do it partly because of what Amseriah just said and partly because mechanically sponsored magic (and seelie magic as well) has it's own set of limitations (that being the agenda and baliwick of their sponsor). Unless of course they start doing terrible things, on a regular basis, simply because they want to. Then it might be appropriate.

[toturi]

Is there anyone in Our World with only sponsored magic and lawbreaker?

[arete]

I also agree with amseriah.

[skippy71]

There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that they aren't subject to the laws of magic in any way. I'll definitely take this into consideration and think on it some more, i'm leaning towards agreeing with this assessment (pun intended).

[Kommisar]

There is also the difference between a changling or fae using Fae-Magic and a mortal using Fae sponsored powers/magic.  I'll have to look this up in the rules later.

Also, I concur that non-mortal magic is not bound by the Laws.  After all, Lea, Mab and Earlking would not have any issue forcefully transforming some poor mortal that crossed them into a hound or some other interesting thing.  They have other factors that might limit their actions; but the White Council Laws are not one of them.

[Drachasor]

Is there anyone in Our World with only sponsored magic and lawbreaker?

If anyone was going to have it, it would have been Lloyd Slate.  No dice there, but we never see him use magic in the book, so that's probably why.

I'd say if you have no fate points and are compelled to kill a mortal with magic, then you don't get lawbreaker as a mortal with sponsored magic.  Otherwise I think you should.