Thaumaturgical Specialization Question

[Peteman]

How do the the control bonuses work? Do they only apply to the Discipline Roll, or do they also increase the amount of power you can bring to bear without taking mental stress?

Because the way it's written really confuses me.

[crusher_bob]

My understanding is that the amount of power you can summon per turn for thaumaturgy relies on your conviction (with stress taken for excess power draws).  However, the amount of power you can safely draw during thaumatrugy is really limited to your total (control - 4).  So to be able to safely draw up to your conviction in power would generally require a few control bonuses.

[toturi]

How do the the control bonuses work? Do they only apply to the Discipline Roll, or do they also increase the amount of power you can bring to bear without taking mental stress?

Because the way it's written really confuses me.

You always take 1 mental stress. That is the minimum amount of stress you take when you cast a spell whether by Evocation or Thaumaturgy. EDIT: That will teach me to post from memory.

Control bonuses apply to the Discipline roll.

[crusher_bob]

P 271, upper left.

You don't take a minimum of 1 stress; can call power up to your conviction for free, and pay for more power on a 1 stress, 1 power basis.

[sinker]

I think the easiest way to cover this would be to explain the process and each skill's part in it.

First you figure out the complexity of the spell and then try to match that with lore + other bonuses (I'm glossing over that bit, it's a bit more complex). Once that's done you (eventually) have to summon enough shifts of power to match the complexity. This is done as a series of simple actions similar to individual evocations where the caster draws as much power as he likes (any amount between 1 and his conviction plus any power bonuses for no stress, each one after that costing one additional stress) and then attempts to channel that into the spell rolling his discipline plus any control bonuses and attempting to get over the amount of power drawn. The drawing and controlling of power is done repeatedly till the complexity is matched and the spell works, or until the caster mucks it up (which is usually pretty bad, but depends on how high the complexity is and how far into the spell you are).

Does this answer your question?

[Peteman]

I think the easiest way to cover this would be to explain the process and each skill's part in it.

First you figure out the complexity of the spell and then try to match that with lore + other bonuses (I'm glossing over that bit, it's a bit more complex). Once that's done you (eventually) have to summon enough shifts of power to match the complexity. This is done as a series of simple actions similar to individual evocations where the caster draws as much power as he likes (any amount between 1 and his conviction plus any power bonuses for no stress, each one after that costing one additional stress) and then attempts to channel that into the spell rolling his discipline plus any control bonuses and attempting to get over the amount of power drawn. The drawing and controlling of power is done repeatedly till the complexity is matched and the spell works, or until the caster mucks it up (which is usually pretty bad, but depends on how high the complexity is and how far into the spell you are).

Does this answer your question?

So, what you are saying is that it does not add to the Conviction score of the character for the purposes of spellcasting, unlike with Evocation.

[sinker]

Power bonuses always add to the conviction score of the character. Control bonuses add to the discipline of the character. I suppose that's the way it is for both evocation and thaumaturgy.

[Peteman]

Power bonuses always add to the conviction score of the character. Control bonuses add to the discipline of the character. I suppose that's the way it is for both evocation and thaumaturgy.

There's no such thing as a Power bonus for Thaumaturgy. It mentions on 181 the rolls, so I guess, there is no way to increase your Conviction WRT Thaumaturgy.

[sinker]

Ahh, you're right. I've been being lazy lately and not going to the books to check. Here's the RAW on specialization. YS181.

This specialization can take one of two forms—
either a complexity bonus, increasing the
level of complexity you can manage without
preparation by one for spells of a particular
type, or a control bonus, increasing your
rolls to control the specified ritual by one
(crafting uses different bonus types—see
page 280).

So yeah, apparently there's no way to increase your conviction for thaumaturgy. Control bonuses apply to the discipline roll to control the power and channel it into the spell.