Tagging for effect

[Cavallo]

I know you're probably tired answering those basic questions but searching forum didn't bring me any answers. What can I do wit Tag?
I know it works like invoke (+2/reroll). That's simple.
Can I use it as free invoke for effect? Rulebook is somehow unclear about it. Or maybe I still need to pay Fate Point for using it for effect? In any case can affected character pay Fate Point to resist if I'm using tag placed on him since it's basically a compel.
Can I tag for effect Aspects created by consequences?

[Kommisar]

If you place an aspect on a target as a maneuver (by spell or otherwise) by default you get one free tag on that aspect assuming that you use that free tag in a timely manner.  After using that free tag and assuming that the target has not performed and action to counter this aspect, anyone else that knows of that aspect may spend a fate point to tag it as normal.

Yes, you can absolutely tag a consequence.  That is the whole point of having them after all.  I also allow for a free tag of any consequence in the same way as if it was placed through a maneuver.  You break a guys leg, you get to tag that on your next attack.

As for spending a fate point to cancel the tag, I'm not 100% here and will have to go back and look at the rules again.

[devonapple]

As for spending a fate point to cancel the tag, I'm not 100% here and will have to go back and look at the rules again.

If someone uses a FP to Compel an Aspect or Consequence ("I Compel his Broken Leg aspect - he's too slow to escape, so we capture him") then it can be countered with another FP. But for a simple tag for +2, I don't believe you can buy out of it with a Fate Point.

[Cavallo]

So using tag as "invoke for effect" is fine? I got confused because this post in sample combat:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?PHPSESSID=33fa02bd7ad58c81b8184ce56e421d62&topic=20530.msg900893#msg900893

It's says:
A consequence enables one tag, which is a free invoke.  An invoke is either +2 to a roll or a reroll.  In order to compel the consequence, the player (Barry, in this case) would need to spend a fate point, which Voldy would get...and could also have begun an escalation on the compel, making it far more costly to the compelling player.

So it assumes tag is +2/reroll only, but NOT effect/compel.

[devonapple]

So using tag as "invoke for effect" is fine? I got confused because this post in sample combat:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php?PHPSESSID=33fa02bd7ad58c81b8184ce56e421d62&topic=20530.msg900893#msg900893

It's says:
A consequence enables one tag, which is a free invoke.  An invoke is either +2 to a roll or a reroll.  In order to compel the consequence, the player (Barry, in this case) would need to spend a fate point, which Voldy would get...and could also have begun an escalation on the compel, making it far more costly to the compelling player.

So it assumes tag is +2/reroll only, but NOT effect/compel.

It can seem confusing, but it also costs a Fate Point to "Invoke for Effect." Anytime a character's actions are constrained or altered because of an Aspect or Consequence, there should be a Fate Point changing hands, reflecting the plot control shifting. Even if it is the first thing you do with that Aspect or Consequence - the "free tag" only works for a reroll or +2.

Some GMs may "self-Compel" an Aspect or Consequence suffered by one of their NPCs, but they are generally handing that NPC a Fate Point for it. A GM could similarly blanket-Compel everyone in a Scene using a Scene Aspect ("Building on Fire"), but he should be making it rain Fate Points.

[Cavallo]

Thank you for quick response. Everything is clear now. There's just one more question. If player (or NPC) pays Fate Point to compel or invoke for effect just created Aspect can he (or anybody else really) get free +2/reroll afterwards or this tag is used already and no more free invokes?

[devonapple]

Thank you for quick response. Everything is clear now. There's just one more question. If player (or NPC) pays Fate Point to compel or invoke for effect just created Aspect can he (or anybody else really) get free +2/reroll afterwards or this tag is used already and no more free invokes?

No, the "free tag" shouldn't expire if you have used a Fate Point to Compel that Aspect. I'd say that they (the original creator or assessor of the Aspect, as well as any allied companions) can get that free tag in the same scene, but it may be moot - once you've Compelled someone like that, its usually to end their part in the conflict. If you can justify something later (not much later, usually, depending on whether it was a Consequence, a Maneuver, or an Assessed or Declared Aspect) you can probably go with it. For instance, I can see someone Compelling an NPC to stop running because of their Broken Leg (Fate Point), and later, when interrogating him, free-tagging that same Broken Leg for a +2 to an Intimidation check (or, conversely, free-tagging it for a +2 to a Rapport check "We'd like to bind your leg, but you have to help us").

[Kommisar]

Yup, Devon nailed it there and explained it better than I could.   

[sinker]

I'm not sure if I would allow the tag much later. The concept of a tag is that it's used almost immediately (within an exchange or two).

[devonapple]

I'm not sure if I would allow the tag much later. The concept of a tag is that it's used almost immediately (within an exchange or two).

Aspects gained via Declarations and Assessments (which are purportedly revealing facts or determining Facts about the game world) have some grace period, but usually need to come up in the next scene in which they would be applicable.

So if I successfully Declared on Monday that a mid-level flunky had an aspect Easily Bought, although one or more scenes may pass before I see him again, I still get to save it up. But if I didn't use it the next scene I saw him, say on Tuesday, then the free tag would be squandered and I couldn't use it on Wednesday. There are just times when you can't get to an Aspect immediately, and the GM needs the freedom to let you get to it in good time, rather than drop everything to use the free tag.

[sinker]

I agree that there are circumstances when a tag should be saved, but personally I don't think physical conflict is one of them.