4th Nail/Sword of the Cross ideas suggestions?

[Drachasor]

Hmm, Faith, Hope, Love...

Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael.  We have Michael giving the Sword of Hope to Sanya and Raphael helping Michael Carpenter with his defenses, let's associate Gabriel with the Sword of Faith.

So, if we associate the 4th Nail's sword (if it is a sword) with Uriel, I think we have some interesting options.  It could well be out there and no one ever hears about it.  Perhaps that is one of its powers, even.

[Amseriah]

I thought that the archangels associated with the swords were Uriel, Michael, and Gabriel.  I didn't think that Raphael was spoken for other than for helping Michael Carpenter with the panic room.  Am I incorrect?

[Drachasor]

I thought that the archangels associated with the swords were Uriel, Michael, and Gabriel.  I didn't think that Raphael was spoken for other than for helping Michael Carpenter with the panic room.  Am I incorrect?

Mab's the only one that has really talked about them:

Mab’s head moved slightly with the words, but it was Grimalkin’s mewling voice that actually spoke. “The Prince of the Host is all pomp and ceremony, and when he moves it is with the thunder of the wings of an army of seraphim, the crash of drums, and the clamor of horns. The Trumpeter never walks quietly when he can appear in a chorus of light. The Demon Binder takes tasks upon his own shoulders and solves his problems with his own hands. But the Watchman…” Mab smiled. “Of the archangels, I like him the most. He is the quiet one. The subtle one. The one least known. And by far the most dangerous.”

The Prince of the Host is Michael, the Trumpeter is Gabriel, and the Demon Binder is Raphael.  Uriel is the Watchman.

I'm just linking them to the sword they were most closely mentioned with in the books.  Michael gave the sword to Sanya and Raphael helped protect the Carpenters.  Gabriel has not been mentioned specifically outside of what Mab said, but I thought I'd tie him to the Sword of Faith (he also guides prophets, it is said, so that kind of works on other levels).  Uriel is sneaky though, so if he was going to have a sword most closely associated with him, then it would be sneaky as well, I'd think.

Obviously in an actual game you wouldn't tie each Archangel 100% to a sword, but having each one more associated with one sword compared to the others gives each one a certain personality and helps us figure out how to implement a 4th sword in a cool way.  Naturally, it should be the Sword of Humility, since it humbles people and black ops people have to have enough humility to be content never being remembered or written about.

[Amseriah]

Hmmm, I like that, it is a very cool take on the concept of a 4th sword.

[Ren]

Hrmm the Watchman's Sword? That could also be interesting...

[bibliophile20]

Is the idea of the Watchman's Sword making anyone else think of Samuel Vimes?  Particularly his encounter with the Summoning Dark?

[Ren]

I have NO idea what any of that means...

[devonapple]

Is the idea of the Watchman's Sword making anyone else think of Samuel Vimes?  Particularly his encounter with the Summoning Dark?

They are references to Discworld. It's hard to explain succinctly, and it would hijack the thread. Samuel Vimes is a cynical, angry copper who only manages to contain himself because he believes in Justice. Almost supernaturally so. But to this point, he considers himself on both sides of the phrase 'quis custodies ipsos custodes' ('Who watches the watchmen?'). Excellent character study. My favorite in the series.

[bibliophile20]

I have NO idea what any of that means...

Oh, um... have you ever heard of Terry Pratchett's Discworld series?  Samuel Vimes is the head of the City Watch, and regardless of what ranks he's been awarded with, feels that he is, and always will be, A Watchman, and knows that that identity of being a Watchman keeps him from being just as bad as the scum he hunts.  The encounter that I mentioned is a scene in the book Thud! where he's been possessed--somewhat--by a being known as the Summoning Dark, a "quasi-demonic entity of pure vengeance" that had been called by some dwarves in response to their murders.  

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The Summoning Dark is running around the deserted city of Vimes' mind, and it's being followed. By Something.  And just at the end, when Vimes is ready to exact vengeance--not justice--on the dwarves in question, he stops.  No one would know if he killed them all.  But he stops.  And in his mind, the Summoning Dark has just met Vimes' own personal Watchman, the Watching Dark.  "He created me. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who watches the watchmen? Me. I watch him. Always." [...] "But I think you misunderstand. I am not here to keep darkness out. I'm here to keep it in."  And then he, this personal avatar of Vimes' belief in justice, evicts a semi-demonic avatar of revenge.  Without help.  Without ritual.  Without anything other than pure belief in Justice over Revenge.

 

Ninja'd by devon. 

Now, to keep this from thread-jacking, I'll say this: Uriel is the Watchman, right?  And the Watchman needs to consort with lowest of the low as part of his work, all the while remaining incorruptible, must remain vigilant, and be willing to do violence, not only to others, but to his peace of mind and soul, so that others may live in peace.

Translating that into game terms is going to be a bit of work... any thoughts?

[Ren]

Ah I think I've only read like one or two books of the series. Keep meaning to read them all but keep forgetting.

As for translating I think that this could lead into an interesting adventure that surrounds a Sub-sect of the Church that serves the needs of the Watcher. A sect not afraid to get its hands dirty to do what needs to be done. The 4th Nail in this case could easily take the form of a dagger or other small weapon used for assassination.

A sample adventure;  the last wielder died in battle and the Knife disappeared, prompting a panic and a global hunt for the missing weapon before it falls into the wrong hands. Only to find out the weapon has made its way into the hands of some homeless addict who is destined to become its next wielder whether they know it or not. Once the wielder is found they then have to be protected until they can be cleaned up, convinced to take the job and trained.

[Richard_Chilton]

If we are talking about swords that use people...

The Seeking Sword is a book by Jaan Kangilaski.  Set mostly in the present era it tells the tale of an ancient sword that practically forces people to kill.  In case someone out there wants to track the book down, I'll spoiler tag the details:

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Back in prehistoric times there was a this hunter-gather tribe in Europe barely scrapping by when an agricultural tribe showed up in their lands.  The hunter-gathers call the newcomers the "cow-dung knees" tribe because they kept cattle and had cow dung up their knees.  Anyway, while the old shaman of the hunters was out looking for a meteorite the two tribes went to war.  All the men of the hunter-gather tribe were slaughtered and the women and children were added to the victorious tribe.

The returning shaman forged the iron meteor into a sword (making maybe the first iron sword in history) then willed his spirit into it.  When the children of the dead tribe were older they used the iron sword to kill the conquering tribe... Only thing, by then there had been some interbreeding and the old Shaman in the sword wasn't going to rest until all of the "cow-dung knees" tribe was gone.  He could sense the members of his tribe as one colour of fire and sense the members of the enemy tribe as another colour of fire, and urged his tribe to kill the others.

Tired of being made to kill their half-brothers (and sometimes full brothers - thanks to the interbreeding) the tribe tossed out the sword, but being magic it survived and eventually was found by a descendant of the "good" tribe, who the Shaman urged to kill descendants of the bad tribe.  This killing went on from the prehistoric times until modern day.  The Shaman will talk to the sword's wielder and urge him to kill "the enemy", explaining why it is just that the wielder does so.

Each tribe now has tens of thousands (if not millions) of members, but the Shaman will not rest until the last of the enemy is dead.

In other words, a sword seeking to right a wrong that is so ancient that its cause no longer matters.  Driving people to kill - even though they will be arrested - because the descendants of some evil people have to die.  Wielded by people (usually men) who think they are doing good as they murder the unknowing descendants of someone who once did wrong.

Richard