4th Nail/Sword of the Cross ideas suggestions?

[Ren]

I am totally steal...er BORROWing it for my Campaign...
At some point anyway...

[sjksprocket]

I think I might have to burrow this idea as well. But I was thinking for my campaign that the nail/sword combo would work like the spear of Longinus (if I'm spelling it right). Just less powerful, not being in contact with the blood.

[riplikash]

Just another thought on the concept of the nails.

The idea of 3 nails (one in each hand, one through both feet) is primarily the result of early artists depicting it that way and not because we actually have any reason to believe there were 3 nails.

Some scholars believe there were 4 (one for each foot) or and many even believe it there were 6 (a nail through each hand, and another through the wrist to keep the flesh from tearing, and one through each foot), which was another known method.

[Tsunami]

That sounds like a plan to me, but as a related note; the first three Swords are Faith, Hope and Love. All of which are positive virtues. Justice while positive can also have some more negative connotations as in "Justice is Blind",[...]

Just a little nitpick here.

"Justice is Blind" is generally considered to be a positive aspect of Justice.
The Blindfold of Justitia (roman goddess of justice) represents impartiality, regardless of social status, money, or any other outward attributes.


and another thought:

As a virtue, Justice is very different from vengeance. But it can easily happen that the need for justice makes people seek vengeance instead.
Maybe one of the duties of the wielder is to make sure that people don't fall victim to that temptation.

On the other hand, if you are really looking to make the 4th sword a more ambiguous one, then vengeance fits the bill as well. As the flipside of Justice, tempting the wielder to deal out his own justice (or vengeance), turning him into a vigilante.

[Ren]

Nit pick away! I think that to some Justice is a "Harder" idea as its harder to truly have impartial justice and harder still to walk that fine line of impartiality than it is to follow the tenets of Faith, Hope and Love which can be very ambiguous. Of course one man's justice may be another man's injustice...

I'm really digging on this idea however you want to play with it...six nails would certainly allow for more swords of either stripe and certainly more interesting than the over-used trope of the Spear of Longinus/Destiny. But in my game I'll keep it to 4 so that the fight for the 4th Nail will be more interesting...

[Richard_Chilton]

If we're going for legends, Simon R Green did something fun with the "Unholy Grail".

Basic outline of Simon R Green's handling of the Unholy Grail: The Holy Grail is the cup that Jesus used during that last supper, but Judas was there too.  Doesn't that mean he had a cup? Someone asked that question and the Unholy Grail was born.

Originally the Unholy Grail just a cup but as myth, story, and magic built up it became a Symbol (capital S) and now might have something to do with the Last Conflict.  It might even start the Final Battle - who knows? But someone from the Vatican is looking for the best investigator he can find to dig up the Unholy Grail and Angels (both kinds) are looking around for it - can the story's protagonist find it before anyone else does?

Richard

[Tallyrand]

I always felt that Judas got a bad rap, I make a point to spin him as a good guy whenever I use him in stories.

[Bubba Amon Hotep]

Had a person who wanted to be a knight of the cross in a game I was running.  I let them do it based on backstory.  The father used a blade, she trained growing up to wield it.  And is passing it down to her.

Then added my own underlying twist, and the relation to this topic. You see her father was a cultist who used the black.  The cult over the ages had gathered fragments from THE cat-o-nine tails used to give Jesus his lashings.  Since Lucifer had tainted it, by compelling the guards to torture him, the sword forged from the Cat-o-nine tails was also dark.

The player attempted to be a knight of the cross with the dark sword, but little accidents/coincidences would corrupt her efforts.  Later she found out about the sword, brought down the cultists one by one, including her father, and sought out a sympathetic Wizard (Harry) to help destroy the blade.

The real Knights get involved, and through her prior actions, and during a baptism of sorts, the blade is cleansed.  The player enjoyed it, and that is the first rule of the game.  HAVE FUN.

I believe there was an old Indiana Jones adventure based on the 4th nail.  And how it relates to traveling gypsies.

[Ren]

Its an interesting idea, but I feel that the whole Grail thing is overdone so I prefer to come up with different ideas, thus the 4th nail works for me.
Though come to think of it, if the Nails were sued to make swords why couldn't splinters of the true cross be used? Find some of those and you could have an army of Knights of the Cross crusading across the globe!
I still like having the Sword of the 4th Nail being an object of Evil or at least has the potential for Dark power.

I actually agree on the Judas getting a bad rap to some degree. He was pretty much born with one purpose in mind, to betray Jesus. He repented for his sent and hung himself...but he never had a choice in his role to play did he? That's one of the many reasons why I'm a big fan of the Rock Opera "Jesus Christ Superstar", because it portrays Judas as pretty much a vehicle of Destiny...and Jesus as well. They had to play their parts to ensure he was martyred, it pretty much ensured his word would spread. In the final song at the end Judas comes back at the end and asks him why he didn't wait until modern times when his message could be spread by mass media...but would believe such a thing in this day and age?
Anyway, I'm not going to get into TT here, not any further anyway, but I have a Super-hero Novel that has the origins of it's Heroes "Gifts" based on the Concept that Judas didn't have a choice about what he did.

[Ren]

Thats very cool Bubba, I like it a lot! Very Epic story idea!

And the Adventure you are thinking of was form the Indiana Jones Comic Books. Once upon a time I actually had issue number one of that very series...long since gone now and I never got any more episodes so I never knew how it turned out.

[Arcteryx]

As I read this I thought to myself, this thread would actually make for a great adventure outline - with derivative and alternative ideas/directions in sidebars.

Lets face it - if we run or play this game any amount of time, Knights of the Cross (or something similar'ish) are going to pop up, and this is an awesome storyline to take them through.

Good work folks!

[Ren]

From the 4th Nail to a Knight of Hell to the Uholy Grail...does have the makings of an Epic Story...

[Amseriah]

If anyone is interested and have netflix, I watched a documentary by National Geographic about the Gospel of Judas.  There is historical record of it existing and some people believe that they have found it and have translated it.  It says that (paraphrasing of course) Judas was Jesus's most advanced student and that the told him to turn him into the Romans knowing that he would be killed.  The reasoning is that Jesus had to have his human body destroyed so that his divine soul could be released.  Judas knew that he would be considered a traitor but did it anyway because of his love for Jesus.  Here is a link to the National Geographic page:  http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/

[Grokken]

I like the idea of a piece of the True Cross as well, though my thought was a staff carved from it.  You'd have a LOT of wizards sorcorers and others fighting over that.

[Vars]

I wouldn't go with Vengeance or with Justice or any other connotation of judgement. It pretty clearly states that that area is left up to someone else in the Dresden books. When a denarian relenquished his coin in "Death Masks" he was given right to leave by knights even though they knew he was going to go back to his old ways. If I were you I would name the sword "Patience". I wouldn't name it after any of the other virtue's because in my head that leads to other swords for each of those but patience is something that I feel fits well with the other sword names. Sadly I don't know the latin word for patience but it can't be to hard to look up, just my 2 cents worth.