Declarations for Skills (Compilation and Clarification)

[AlexFallad]

So I and my extended gaming group are diving headfirst into Fate/Dresden, and the Declaration mechanic is a good place for me to dive in.

Question:
Since declarations seem to be about knowledge and perception, does that pretty much limit declarations to skill trappings and stunts that involove knowledge?  Or is there still some flexibility there?  I think a Declaration with Endurance might be hard to do, but Craftmanship certainly implies knowledge even if the skill doesn't have a trapping explicitly stating that.

Compilation of Declaration Examples
Note: For now I am skipping over skills that I am either unsure if they qualify for declarations or if they already have excellent examples in YS (like Alertness and Burglary)

Format:
Skill/Trapping
Aspect Example after a successful Declaration roll

Contacts/Getting the Tip-Off
Leroy Jenkins Always Drops a Dime

Driving/Street Knowledge
Avoid the Interstate at Rush Hour

Fists/Martial Artist
Sloppy Footwork
Drops Guard When Kicking
Likes to Kick High

[AlexFallad]

Guns/Gun Knowledge
Hey! Guess Who Has Hollow Point Ammo!

Weapons
Off-Balance from Swinging a Battleaxe

So, any good examples from your games?  Anyone able to answer my above question definitively?

[Sanctaphrax]

I would argue that you can declare using trappings other than knowledge. For example, you could use Contacts to declare the arrival of MY BUDDY HERBERT when you're bleeding to death on a street corner and desperately in need of help. Or you could use Craftsmanship to declare that your car has HOME-MADE UPGRADES. Or you could use Discipline to declare that you are TOTALLY FOCUSED before casting a spell. Or you could use Athletics to declare that you have THE HIGH GROUND before ambushing someone. Or you could use Endurance to declare that you DRANK 'EM UNDER THE TABLE in order to gain an advantage in a social combat in a bar.

Sure, some skills are tricky to declare with. But in theory, I think that you can declare with any skill as long as your GM approves.

[siggelsworth]

This is where my confusion comes in regarding Declarations.  Do the RAW say that Declarations don't require any time to perform, that they are more of an instantaneous observation of something that is already in place but that the GM hasn't pointed out (or thought of)?

Some of the above examples like Totally Focused or The High Ground seem like they would require an action to establish--most likely a manuever.  The example of My Buddy Herbert seems like it could go either way: pay a Fate Point to Declare that Herbert fortuitously arrives; or perform an action to make a free Contacts roll to see if you can get a hold of Herbert and have him come help you.

Am I missing something?  I'd hate to think that I was making my players work too hard spending actions on things that could be instantly managed via Declaration.

[devonapple]

Declarations can generally be phrased in the following ways:

"Luckily I brought my..."
This is good for Resources Declarations and similar applications. If you have a skill to justify it, the GM may make you roll for the Declaration, or just approve it, depending on how cool, useful, and narratively satisfying it may be. Otherwise it is going to cost a Fate Point.

"Knowing what I know about [topic], I'm pretty sure that..."
This is good for Knowledge Declarations using a variety of skills: Burglary, Scholarship, Contacts, Rapport - endless options. Establishing Aspects about a house you plan to break into; establishing an Aspect about a guard to make bribery more feasible; things like that. Again, if you have a skill to justify it, the GM may make you roll for the Declaration, or just approve it, depending on how cool, useful, and narratively satisfying it may be. Otherwise it is going to cost a Fate Point.

"Luckily there happens to be a [useful item] right over there..."
This is good for Alertness, Investigation, or other similar skills about noticing useful things in one's environment. Establishing a firehose station in a burning building; establishing an easily-accessed janitor's closet for a disguise; establishing a window-washing rig on the roof to facilitate access to an otherwise inaccessible area of a building. Again, if you have a skill to justify it, the GM may make you roll for the Declaration, or just approve it, depending on how cool, useful, and narratively satisfying it may be. Otherwise it is going to cost a Fate Point.

In all of these applications, the GM has a general guideline by which to judge how difficult it is to Declare something, but is also free to just say "yes."

[sinker]

Some of the above examples like Totally Focused or The High Ground seem like they would require an action to establish--most likely a manuever.  The example of My Buddy Herbert seems like it could go either way: pay a Fate Point to Declare that Herbert fortuitously arrives; or perform an action to make a free Contacts roll to see if you can get a hold of Herbert and have him come help you.

Am I missing something?  I'd hate to think that I was making my players work too hard spending actions on things that could be instantly managed via Declaration.

Some of those could be justified as either maneuvers or declarations. The High Ground could be something someone is intentionally trying to create (I.E. a maneuver) or a coincidental situation that they want to take advantage of (declaration). Same with My Buddy Herbert, etc. I do agree that Totally Focused seems like a maneuvered aspect, but you could get similar results with the declaration "I Was Just Thinking About This Exact Thing This Morning." There's enough wiggle room with aspects that you could probably do anything with a declaration that you could do with a maneuver, but of course it always comes down to the question: "Is this cool or does it make the GM's job easier?"

[Sanctaphrax]

Maneuvers cannot be made outside of conflicts. Therefore, maneuver-like things made outside of conflicts are actually declarations.

If a player wants to have the high ground in a fight, he should probably use a maneuver. I might allow it as a declaration with a very high difficulty, though.

[devonapple]

There's enough wiggle room with aspects that you could probably do anything with a declaration that you could do with a maneuver, but of course it always comes down to the question: "Is this cool or does it make the GM's job easier?"

Less wiggle room than assumed, actually. Declarations are specifically to introduce new facts to flesh out the game world. And they don't expire until reality dictates otherwise. It can only be free-tagged once by the person who Declared it, but it remains a persistent taggable Aspect. So once a player Declares that a construction site has the Aspect "Running Water," it will always have that Aspect until something happens to change that.

Now anyone can make a Maneuver (or other action, outside of a Conflict) to REMOVE a Scene Aspect, even one made with a Declaration, as long as they can justify it ("I go to the water junction and shut down all water flowing into the building" or "I set off a bomb which disables the water main going to this building" or an outside-of-conflict option "I use Contacts to get a friend in the Utilities Company to shut it off"), each of which will have its own minimal Time commitment.

Navel-gazing Maneuvers are solely character-focused, and therefore are not really a Declaration, nor do they add a fact to the game world. You may be "Focused on Your Ritual," but anything can break that focus. It's not a Declaration.

My "Luckily I brought my..." example is a potential source of confusion, and I admit that it might be skirting the line between a Declaration and another thing entirely. Personal inventory and resources seem to present a gray area as far as Declarations go.

[AlexFallad]

This is all good talk so far, especially since it seems apparent how easily declarations can be compared with manuevers, etc. I do believe the YS states that setting up an ambush allows you to create a scene aspect...so that sort of functions like a declaration.

I am also now appreciating the usefulness of the Martial Artist stunt (Use of Fists to declare/assess aspects about fighting styles and cultures at a +1).  This discussion leads me to question if a char w/o Martial Artist can declare/assess with just Fists at all.  It's also worth noting that Weapons comes with a built in trapping "Weapon Knowledge" but Fists does not...

[devonapple]

I am also now appreciating the usefulness of the Martial Artist stunt (Use of Fists to declare/assess aspects about fighting styles and cultures at a +1).  This discussion leads me to question if a char w/o Martial Artist can declare/assess with just Fists at all.  It's also worth noting that Weapons comes with a built in trapping "Weapon Knowledge" but Fists does not...

It looks like Martial Artist may simply be borrowing the Weapon Knowledge trapping from Weapons, and then giving a +1 to the roll.

The implication is that you cannot do so without the Stunt, but I would rule that Martial Artist is the only way to declare/assess *during a Conflict* - a player who takes time and energy to research something should still be able to get the information, even if they can't get it instantly in the midst of a fight. It's just that without Martial Artist, the player may not be able to immediately Assess and tag those Aspects, instead saving them for a future conflict.

This is all good talk so far, especially since it seems apparent how easily declarations can be compared with manuevers, etc. I do believe the YS states that setting up an ambush allows you to create a scene aspect...so that sort of functions like a declaration.

Yeah, this is where Maneuvers and Declarations sort of blend together. Theoretically your Ambush is a fleeting, temporary Aspect (though hopefully a Sticky Aspect for the purposes of the Ambush Scene).

I'd say anything your character is DOING to prepare an Ambush is a Maneuver (examples: loose floorboards, alarms, oil slick, camouflage, bribed guards), and anything you are ESTABLISHING about the Ambush Location is a Declaration (examples: convenient doorway, nosy neighbors, drowsy guards, convenient handholds).

Something like Well-Planned Escape Route would sit somewhere in between Maneuver and Declaration - besides, a REALLY well-planned escape route would have a lot of individual tactical components.