Crafting

[The Werewolf]

Can you craft magic pets with ritual?

[devonapple]

Kinda?

There's a great demand on the boards for rules on how to build constructs and/or summon things, but the book is pretty vague on how complex it would be. The most guidance we have is on the complexity of making objects out of ectoplasm, and that summoning certain things should be interpreted as a Thaumaturgically enhanced Contacts roll.

For magical pets, familiars, homunculi, and other things, an Aspect would be an elegant way to handle it - it can be invoked for a Fate Point to boost an appropriate skill, and it can be Compelled to complicate your character's life.

Other folks want to stat such things as an Item of Power.

For D&D 3.x, a third-party publisher produced an "Encyclopedia Magica" supplement on how to create Constructs. Perhaps there needs to be a focus group here to develop similar guidelines for constructs and summoned creatures.

[Sanctaphrax]

I think so, although I have no idea how to go about it.

Somebody should homebrew a system for pets and minions.

[bibliophile20]

I think so, although I have no idea how to go about it.

Somebody should homebrew a system for pets and minions.

Okay.  For making a homunculus--what Our World defines as a golem or true golem--I'll slap together the following:

Ritual interval is 15 minutes; the usual rule about increasing your roll by +1 by bumping up a time increment applies and is often used. 

Base ritual: +5 complexity.  If you want a short lived tribble, it's not that terribly hard. 

2 Skill points: +1 complexity.  The pyramid applies.

Stunts: +1 complexity per stunt.

Supernatural powers: +(Refresh cost of power) complexity.

Golem: +0; if you're summoning or binding a spirit into the form of native materials, much of the above complexity--stunts, powers, skills--comes from the spirit.

True Golem: +5; if you're taking the more impressive route, it'll take time and effort to "code up" an independent artificial consciousness.

Lifespan: Base lifespan time is 15 minutes; each increment up on the time chart is +1 complexity. 

Voila!  Rough, crude, but workable and refine-able. 

[Amseriah]

What about the possibility of crafting an item of power or a relic?  I am not talking about just popping these out willy-nilly, but if one needed to have one made, what would he have to do?

[devonapple]

Re: Skill Points

Strands of Fate (for comparison purposes only) has a "Summon Creature" power. Buying it costs a number of points equal to 2 + the summoned creatures highest Ability (Ability = Skill in DFRPG). Nothing specifying how many Abilities happen to be high, nor are Powers even addressed.

Rather than charge per skill point, though, perhaps we make the ritual complexity = n! where n = the highest Skill rank.

So, a creature for which Superb is the highest skill rank would add a Complexity of 5+4+3+2+1 =15

Edit: As an option, to keep people from gaming this system, we could charge +1 Complexity for each additional skill the creature has at that maximum rank. So a creature with a max of 3 Superb Skills would cost 17 (15 for having one Superb skill, and +2 for having 2 more) while a creature with only 1 Superb skill would still cost 15.

Edit #2: the rules for conjuration say that 2 shifts are required to give something animation, which I imagine is like installing a very simple AI to operate the conjured object. Perhaps Conjuration and Golem Crafting can be aligned in some way? Maybe a basic golem AI is 2 shifts, which would be enough to get it to "act" like it was a real... whatever it is. And after that, we tack on complexity for any powers and skills it would have.

Specifically, I think Skills should be a factor of the AI piloting the golem, while Powers should be a factor of the mystical body prepared for it, a series of enchantments that the piloting AI could control, much like a guy in a fighter jet. Just make sure that if your Golem has a Breath Weapon, the AI has ranks in the correct skill to use it.

Edit #3: We may want to split the Skills/Stunts between the AI and the Body:
Body: Might, Endurance and any stunts related to these two skills
AI: Alertness, Investigation, Fists, Guns, Weapons, as well as Stealth, Discipline, Deceit, Burglary, and any other skill or stunt, really, unless they are clearly a function of the body

[devonapple]

What about the possibility of crafting an item of power or a relic?  I am not talking about just popping these out willy-nilly, but if one needed to have one made, what would he have to do?

Someone would have to spend Refresh on the Item of Power - after that, it would be a matter of dramatic license.

[devonapple]

Updated to accommodate feedback from Fred Hicks at Evil Hat (and reposted from this thread):

The general Complexity guideline for making something seems to be to use enough shifts to kill that which you would call up... if you want to build a construct of some sort, or an AI, this is what you do instead of a Thaumaturgic "Contacts" roll.

So it would work as follows:
1) Stat out what you want to build.
2) Figure out the number of shifts needed to take it out completely. One stress track, all consequences, plus one.
I would opt to pick the best stress track that the creature has, since we want the resource, not the body count, and this will mean you are generally paying for the Physical stress track of a physical combatant, and the Mental or Social stress track for something summoned to provide knowledge or guidance).
3) Tack on a difficulty surcharge equal to twice the refresh cost of the creature's abilities (Stunts and Powers).
4) Add Complexity for the duration - figure out with your GM whether you start from a Scene, a Day, or some duration in between.

This could be appropriate for AIs, Golems, Constructs, maybe even NPC Familiars.

This method ignores skill points, except insofar as one of the construct's skills will be determining the Stress Track you would have to overcome. But it does take Powers into account.

Note that if you are summoning something with Toughness Powers, you might seem to be paying twice - once for the power, and once to overcome the added boxes on its Stress Track. How do folks feel about that?

[Buscadera]

It's an either/or situation based on my reading. It seems that GMs can choose to have their summoners:

A) generate enough shifts to take out its best stress track
B) generate enough shifts to account for twice the Refresh cost of Stunts/Powers
C) A+B, for extremely strong creatures

I don't think the extra surcharge is always necessary, on a case-by-case basis. Summoning a dumb muscle golem? Just pay for the physical stress track. Summoning a scary-strong demon who has access to limitless infernal knowledge? Pay for both.

That's the way I'd run it, at least.

[devonapple]

That's the way I'd run it, at least.

Maybe we should take an example creature or Demon from another thread and see how each GM would rate it on a Complexity level?

[Buscadera]

Maybe we should take an example creature or Demon from another thread and see how each GM would rate it on a Complexity level?

That's fair. For the sake of convenience, let's use a low-level creature from Sanctaphrax's Generic NPCs thread. I'll use the Will O' The Wisp. Here are the various ways to stat it:

A) Take out it's best stress track (Social): 15
B) Generate an twice it's Refresh: 18
C) A+B: 33

Unless my math is wrong (which it very well could be; one shift per stress box, two per mild, four per moderate and six per severe, right?), it's prohibitively expensive to quickly summon a very minor pixie when adding both together.

In this case, I would use option A. If I were summoning the pixie for its abilities, I'd go with B. If this were a Will O- The Wisp Lord with higher skills or knowledge, I'd use C.

[devonapple]

That's fair. For the sake of convenience, let's use a low-level creature from Sanctaphrax's Generic NPCs thread. I'll use the Will O' The Wisp.

Alright, using the method I was considering before getting feedback:

Skills: take the highest skill, which is Deceit at Good (+3), then add down to 1. 3+2+1 = 6.
No other skills at Good, so no extra Complexity.
Powers: Charging 2 for each of 9 Refresh worth of Powers = 18.
Stunts: none.

Skills 6 + Powers 18 + Stunts 0 = 24. A little easier than your A+B method.

If we only charge 1 for each Refresh worth of Power it goes down to 6 + 9 + 0 = 15, which was the same Complexity as taking out its Social Stress Track, but using completely unrelated stats.