The Catch

[Arronax]

Hey first time poster so don´t hose me to hard if this is a common subject:

Is the catch for recovery based abilities always an item or object?

My friend is eventually planning on running a game and I had this idea for an Immortal Cowboy of sorts and I was thinking about the catch: that if people fire/attack using their off-hand that the catch bypasses the toughness(and recovery) based powers.

First off all is this "in theme" with the Dreden files(I have only gotten halfway through Fool Moon)?

And secondly is there any way to price this?  Personally I was thinking -3 as this is very common but somewhat unusual, but I have no actual experience with this game.

Thanks in advance.

[devonapple]

There is a lengthy and relatively recent discussion of Catches in this thread, which you will hopefully find useful:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23141.0.html

The focus was on a specific instance of a Catch, but the discussion and implications ranged far and wide. Generally speaking, most any Catch is going to be some discoverable or craftable item or object. Some have opted to establish hand-to-hand combat as a particular Catch for, say, Jade Vampires. Other things can be problematic, such as using a damage threshold. That said, the standard Ghouls in DFRPG use massive trauma as their Catch: if you take them out completely, and opt to kill them, they don't come back.

Fighting with one's off hand does not seem particularly compelling as a Catch, but don't take that as anything other than my own opinion: what do you imagine would be the game penalty for using one's off hand? And what would be the supernatural/metaphysical component of such a Catch?

[Arronax]

This is food for thought, it seems I have been thinking about this one the wrong way.

Although when I think about it Left handedness used to be considered "wrong" back in the day(I heard of people having their left tied so they would learn to write with their right).
So we could infer that using the "wrong" hand is going against ones nature and thus more likely to damage a being whose state of being is inherently wrong.

As for the penalty I suppose a -1 to combat rolls.

However I do think that "massive trauma" is a catch that might work in this case(Cutting of the head of the Immortal Highlander style).

[sjksprocket]

I would say it would be okay to use this as a catch. But I wouldn't start putting modifiers into effect. There is an understanding in the game, which is stated in the book (don't have it in front of me so don't know the page), that there is a moratorium on lots of combat modifiers. I would maybe use an aspect instead. Something like "using their/my off hand". But my question would be how to deal with ambidextrous characters? Since they don't technically have an off hand they can't hurt you.

The thing is I would only give a +1 refresh modifier tops. It's weird, and doesn't seem common, I don't see people saying "Oh can't hurt it with my good hand, let me try my off hand just in case" for no good reason. Unless everyone knows about it, and is made clear at the beginning of the campaign.

[knnn]

There is a concept in Judaism known as b'shinui - "with change".  This concept is used when there is a need to do something prohibited.  The basic idea is that by doing it with a change (in an inefficient manner), you're acknowledging that you realize you would normally not be permitted to do this, but need requires you.

Example:

One is not allowed to light a fire on the Sabbath, but if someone could get possibly get reasonably sick because of the cold, one would possibly be permitted to light a fire with his "off" hand - thereby acknowledging the general prohibition, but accepting that the laws allow for some leniency in certain cases.  Note that if there was a chance of someone actually dying from cold, then lighting the fire on the Sabbath would be totally permitted, and in fact required.

----------------------
Not quite sure how this would translate into game terms, but maybe that character is protected by some divine power similar to how a threshold stops nasties.  By using your "off" hand, you are therefore "acknowledging" that power, and this effectively "invites you under the threshold"?

[BumblingBear]

I don't think being attacked with the off hand would satisfy any of the ways to get refresh back...

I think I would allow it as a GM as a catch because it is more than conceivable that someone could drop a gun, or have their main arm hurt, or dual wield and this would satisfy the catch, but I would not allow the character to get +1 or +2 etc refresh back from it.

I would probably also introduce a lot of characters who dual wield pistols or melee weapons, and trained gunmen who shoulder rifles on their off shoulder in order to fire around corners.

[sinker]

I don't think being attacked with the off hand would satisfy any of the ways to get refresh back...

I think I would allow it as a GM as a catch because it is more than conceivable that someone could drop a gun, or have their main arm hurt, or dual wield and this would satisfy the catch, but I would not allow the character to get +1 or +2 etc refresh back from it.

I would probably also introduce a lot of characters who dual wield pistols or melee weapons, and trained gunmen who shoulder rifles on their off shoulder in order to fire around corners.

The refresh you gain back has alot to do with how much it should show up in the game. If they aren't getting any refresh back you really shouldn't be throwing it in their face all the time (just once or twice when it's dramatically appropriate) because they paid to have it almost universally useful.

[BumblingBear]

The refresh you gain back has alot to do with how much it should show up in the game. If they aren't getting any refresh back you really shouldn't be throwing it in their face all the time (just once or twice when it's dramatically appropriate) because they paid to have it almost universally useful.

Good point.

I stand corrected.  Knowing that, I don't think +2 would be unreasonable then.

I speak from experience here.  Professional gunmen switch to the other hand a lot.