Unsolved Mysteries Version II

[The Fish]

so harry will recognize lash's voice, at least subconciously, and start to once again utilize a great asset?

[SmartAlec]

Why use Lash as a cats-paw when doing the whispering yourself gets the same result?

Balancing things out as much as possible, perhaps. If the shadow that drove Harry to becoming Winter Knight was Lasciel, being used as an agent of Hell, then Lash being used as Uriel's makes a nice symmetry.

[KurtinStGeorge]

This may not be a big mystery.  In Grave Peril when Harry meets Mavra at Bianca's masquerade ball, she tells Harry, "We should talk, I suspect we have much in common."  Harry says something like , "I doubt that."  Then he picks up on her aura and recognizes her as the being behind the nightmare.

So its likely that Mavra was just referring to the sorcerer Kravos; they both had him in common.  Its also possible that Mavra meant something else entirely.  Also, in Dead Beat Mavra was rather talkative with Harry; in almost a friendly way for soulless creature of darkness, until Harry told her to get to the point. 

I get the feeling there are some things about Mavra we haven't found out yet.  Others have suggested she (or it) is a BC member and that may be true.  I won't be surprised if we find out she had some connection to Margaret LeFey or Justin. 

[TruffleShufflen]

Balancing things out as much as possible, perhaps. If the shadow that drove Harry to becoming Winter Knight was Lasciel, being used as an agent of Hell, then Lash being used as Uriel's makes a nice symmetry.

Very good point. Lasciel was a true fallen angel. But Lash was different. Maybe Uriel had a helping hand in making Lash.

[TheCuriousFan]

Very good point. Lasciel was a true fallen angel. But Lash was different. Maybe Uriel had a helping hand in making Lash.

Lash was the shadow of Lasciel that became it's own individual due to Harry's influence, how would Uriel have a hand in that? And isn't Uriel bound not to interfere unless Hell does?

[Reventon]

I would also assume that Uriel wouldn't be allowed to interfere because of his commitment to free will. Regardless of the circumstances, Harry chose to take up the coin and chose to fight it's influence on his own. He could have reached out to Forthill or done something else earlier on, so Lash's manifestation I'm his mind is basically his responsibility.

As far as using Lash as a cat's paw... Similarly I don't see what it actually achieves. Uriel had free reign to whisper the seven words, so why bother with a proxy?

You'd also have to wonder how happy he could be with the shadow of a Denarian in Harry's head. Even subverted to fight for Harry's better interests, it's still composed of a big chunk of one of the Fallen. I really don't see Uriel becoming chummy with such an entity barring absolute necessity. 

[TruffleShufflen]

Well, the thing that is shown is that anyone who takes up a coin, with enough will, can contort it into something good. Something that has feeling. Something that would give its "life" for you.

[KurtinStGeorge]

Well, the thing that is shown is that anyone who takes up a coin, with enough will, can contort it into something good. Something that has feeling. Something that would give its "life" for you.

It might depend on which coin was picked up.  Remember Lasciel is the called the seducer and web weaver, among other things.  Harry speculated she was a "rebel angel among rebel angels."  She is being which uses subtlety and manipulation to ensnare her hosts.  Her shadow is like the original except she was as mutable as Harry.  In other words she could be subtly influenced (manipulated) by her host.

Now take a being like Ursiel.  He's all about brute strength and inflicting damage.  He's the kind of Denarian who would rather overpower his host than co-opt the poor bastard.  So while in theory it might be possible for someone with enough will to control the shadow of Ursiel, that person would not only have to be incredibly strong willed, they would probably have to know in advance of picking up the coin that they would face a devastating psychic attack at the moment they touched the coin. 

I think there would be other problems when that individual got into dangerously violent situations.  In these types of situations, Lash tried to get Harry to see that calling forth Lasciel was the reasonable thing to do.  Ursiel's shadow would use its hosts fear, rage and adrenaline to help it push the host into calling for the true Ursiel. 

Lasciel's shadow was the right being to tempt and manipulate Harry, but Harry was the right host to change Lasciel's shadow into Lash, to contemplate her own identity and make her own decisions.  It would probably take a whole new bag of tricks to handle a different member of the fallen.     

[KurtinStGeorge]

(If this question is in another thread please point me there.)

In Blood Rites, why was Mavra's crew in place at Arturo Genosa's when Harry and Thomas drove up to the outer guard shack?  Its clear Mavra decided to draw Harry into attacking her so she could later blackmail him to get the word of Kemmler for her.

How could she have possibly have known Harry would show up there? 

[MX]

(If this question is in another thread please point me there.)

In Blood Rites, why was Mavra's crew in place at Arturo Genosa's when Harry and Thomas drove up to the outer guard shack?  Its clear Mavra decided to draw Harry into attacking her so she could later blackmail him to get the word of Kemmler for her.

How could she have possibly have known Harry would show up there?

My personal theory is that she and the White King, as part of the Black Council, were working together.  Both Mavra being there with vamps at the guard shack as well as Madge, an ex-wife whom purposefully avoids making contact with Harry, indicate Papa Raith knew someone might interfere and that it might be Harry.  Blood Rites was the White King's attempt to break free from Maggie's death curse.

Just as we had seen Cowl and Kumori at Bianca's ceremony, it was also implied if not outright stated that Mavra was Bianca's teacher in the magical arts.  We find out later that Maggie Sr. was with the White King and wanted Eb's help with some plan and that Duchess Arianna was there as well.

This strongly implies that the White King was BC and that Arianna was as well.  If we tie in Mavra to the scheme, we have a link between these factions.  Mavra, I think, was there in part to gather new henchmen but also to prevent any interference to the White King's plans to bring Genosa 'back into the fold'.  Someone like Harry would be such an interference.

Since she 'failed' and the White King fell in that book, it also keeps in line with Harry's later musings that the Black Council plays all nice with each other until it is time to stick the knife in one of their fellow council members' backs.

Net results of Blood Rites for the bad guys:  Mavra gets blackmail material she later uses to get the word as well as deposing a fellow Council member.  Black Council removes a member that may have been to locked into out-moded thought processes.  Oh, and I think they gain a new Council member: Lara.

Whom better to join a group of self-serving, backstabbing, work-behind-the-scenes-to-destroy-everyone-else club than Lara Raith?  After all, she now has access to all of Papa Raith's knowledge.  I don't think Lara is one to just sit on information, such as it were.

[smoggy]

In Ghost Story, there is a reference fto Father Forthill's worn King James Bible.
The KJV isn't normally used in Catholic circles, there are 2 branches of the tree in the translations from early manuscripts.  The KJV is on one branch, and the normally used Catholic Bible - the Douay-Rheims - is on the other branch.

MY question I guess - i why would a Catholic Priest be using the King James Version?
If he tried to preach from it, he'd have the whole Congregation up in arms right up to and including the bishop.

I love the stories.
I'm also a bible college student.

Comments?

[mdodd]

In Ghost Story, there is a reference fto Father Forthill's worn King James Bible.
The KJV isn't normally used in Catholic circles, there are 2 branches of the tree in the translations from early manuscripts.  The KJV is on one branch, and the normally used Catholic Bible - the Douay-Rheims - is on the other branch.

MY question I guess - i why would a Catholic Priest be using the King James Version?
If he tried to preach from it, he'd have the whole Congregation up in arms right up to and including the bishop.

I love the stories.
I'm also a bible college student.

Comments?

Welcome to the forum. The issue of the bibles was discussed at great length in one of the other threads and I don't think any agreement was made. Possibly it was discussed in the Ghost Story spoilers section.

[OZ]

The speculation ranged from Father Forthill is enough of a scholar to familiarize himself with other translations especially the most popular to Father Forthill is a spy for the Black Council to Jim made an error. As stated above there was no consensus reached.

Well, the thing that is shown is that anyone who takes up a coin, with enough will, can contort it into something good.

I think that you are confusing the actual coin with the shadow that is left behind when someone picks up a coin then attempts to put it away and not touch it again. It took a very strong willed, experienced and sometimes just plain lucky Harry that seems to have a nack or outright ability to change things by naming them to change the shadow of Lasciel to the seeming ally Lash. Every indication is that this would be impossible if you were dealing with the actual fallen rather than their mere shadow.

[TruffleShufflen]

What I really want to know is who's behind it all? In an earlier book it is thought that there is a "master" of all the planning. Making everything happen. Think of how much of a coincidence it is for all of these evil badies coming out and trying to start stuff.

Who is behind it all?

And what are they planning next?

[KurtinStGeorge]

Who is behind it all?

And what are they planning next?

I have a feeling the Black Council is a very loose confederation.  Sort of like the heirs of Kemmler; in that they seek a common goal, but that doesn't mean they like each other and won't stab each other in the back any chance they get. 

I doesn't appear that every major bad guy we have seen is part of the BC.  So there might be more than one party pulling strings.  There could be some not so nice characters who have their own agenda and would oppose the BC for their own reasons.  Harry might be forced to make alliances of convenience to fight the BC.  For example, there has been some speculation in a couple of threads that at some time in the future Harry might be forced to work with a hated enemy like Nicodemus, against a more immediate threat from a BC member.

That would be fun to see, though I doubt a Harry/Nic partnership; even a temporary one, will ever occur.