Spell targetting/buffing weapons

[BumblingBear]

I was thinking about creating a rote that would target a sword or other melee weapon (perhaps even a broom stick) and add points to it's weapon-dom.

By making the force blade sharper and sharper, theoretically even to mono molecule edges, one could make a devastating weapon.

The obvious disadvantage here is that you'd have to be a good swordsman in addition to a decent magic slinger....

The advantage would be a damage boost to your weapon and then a damage boost from any supernatural strength you have.

But anyway, I was thinking about making it a 4 shift spell - 2 for the +2 weapon and 2 shifts for duration.

What do you all think?

[sinker]

The way that you propose it sounds very reasonable but I have experience with this kind of thing and it can get out of hand. Example: You have a wizard with superb casting skills and great sword skills. He casts the spell as a weapon 5 attack (6 if he's using some foci) then spends the next turn extending the spell for the next five or six rounds. Now for the next five (or six) exchanges he can deal somewhere between 6 and 13 stress, every exchange for only the two mental stress he initially put into it. And that's not including any strength powers if he has any.

Of course the fact that this theoretical wizard has spellcasting abilities (and good ones) plus strength powers, may mean that this kind of a thing has a place in your game, just be aware of the possibilities.

[sinker]

Oh, also when my group decided to try this we ruled that the weapon value of the spell supersedes that of the weapon (no stacking) but part of that was that the player was casting an aura of decay on the sword and we figured the aura ate away at the surface before the blade even touched it.

[BumblingBear]

Oh, also when my group decided to try this we ruled that the weapon value of the spell supersedes that of the weapon (no stacking) but part of that was that the player was casting an aura of decay on the sword and we figured the aura ate away at the surface before the blade even touched it.

I think I'd be ok with the damage of the spell overcoming the damage of the sword.  I mean, the mass of the sword would still help impact, but you wouldn't actually be engaging any edges or blunt trauma from the sword itself.

I think it is balanced.  Sure, you can theoretically do a lot more physical stress using less mental stress, but one has to actually
 A. Connect to make it count and
 B. A standard evocation is a ranged spell - most wizards are vulnerable up close.

I'm actually considering forgoing the sword altogether and just using a handle.  Then the spell will resemble a Lightsaber and I could call it,  "Snap, hiss!"

[sinker]

You may find that the amount of mental stress involved in casting is one of those big discussions on this forum and most people believe that circumventing them is a really bad thing, but as with all role-playing it's always up to the group.

As far as the disadvantages a wizard still has to hit with a spell regardless of whether he's swinging it around on a sword or simply directing it with his mind, although having to have a different skill at high levels to hit is a bit of a disadvantage. Really I would think that a wizard built specifically to do this type of magic could circumvent most of the disadvantages of close combat, but wouldn't be really good at much else (though just being a wizard makes it possible to be at least marginally good at everything even if your skill set doesn't reflect it).

[sinker]

I realize that at this point I'm just arguing and I apologize. It's not technically RAW, but I have tried it and found it a little overpowered. Try it out with your group and see what they think. Maybe you'll have better times with it than I did.

[BumblingBear]

I realize that at this point I'm just arguing and I apologize. It's not technically RAW, but I have tried it and found it a little overpowered. Try it out with your group and see what they think. Maybe you'll have better times with it than I did.

It's totally ok!  I do not mind constructive criticism.

I was thinking that this would not be a game breaking mechanic though because my wizard is specced in guns.  Yup.  Guns.

I tried to keep my character build as "in character" and logical as possible.  As such, with the military background, he has his physical skills, guns, fists, and discipline highest.  With the martial weapons feat he can use a sword with fists skill, but he's still not a samurai by any stretch.

In reality, he would probably be more effective with guns and not have to take a hit to mental stress.  However, I like the flavor of the power and I feel it's something he can eventually grow into if the GM allows it and he survives long enough to level up.

[dlw32]

Another approach would be to cast the spell as a maneuver that put an aspect of "Blessed Bullet" or some such on the ammo. You can then tap the aspect for +2. That would require only a 3 power.

I'm not sure it's worth the Mental ding for Evoc, but I think you could avoid that by doing the spell Thaumaturgically beforehand.

Actually, I think the spell would be more useful to invoke a Catch. Instead of worrying about damage, find out what the target's Catch is. Like if you're facing a Black Court Vamp, cast the spell on the ammo so they aquire the tag "Imbued with Sunlight". I think that might end up being more useful.

[devonapple]

Another approach would be to cast the spell as a maneuver that put an aspect of "Blessed Bullet" or some such on the ammo. You can then tap the aspect for +2. That would require only a 3 power.

I'm not sure it's worth the Mental ding for Evoc, but I think you could avoid that by doing the spell Thaumaturgically beforehand.

Actually, I think the spell would be more useful to invoke a Catch. Instead of worrying about damage, find out what the target's Catch is. Like if you're facing a Black Court Vamp, cast the spell on the ammo so they aquire the tag "Imbued with Sunlight". I think that might end up being more useful.

And you can use a Thaumaturgy ritual to place as many of those "Bullets Imbued by Sunlight" Maneuvers as you want to put into the ritual, with a commensurate increase in Complexity.

[Morfedel]

Basically, that's like making a potion, just the really fun kind 8-]

[BumblingBear]

Another approach would be to cast the spell as a maneuver that put an aspect of "Blessed Bullet" or some such on the ammo. You can then tap the aspect for +2. That would require only a 3 power.

I'm not sure it's worth the Mental ding for Evoc, but I think you could avoid that by doing the spell Thaumaturgically beforehand.

Actually, I think the spell would be more useful to invoke a Catch. Instead of worrying about damage, find out what the target's Catch is. Like if you're facing a Black Court Vamp, cast the spell on the ammo so they aquire the tag "Imbued with Sunlight". I think that might end up being more useful.

I really like this idea.

*stolen*!

[tymire]

Also you need to consider that spells cannot add to skills typically, same thing happens with weapons/armor/ect.  For example if a wizard wanted to increase his speed he has to replace his athletics with his spell strength roll, the rules don't allow you to add your spell strength to your athletics.

Doing this as maneuver, as stated above, would be perfectly acceptable and much more in line with how the game is designed.

[BumblingBear]

Also you need to consider that spells cannot add to skills typically, same thing happens with weapons/armor/ect.  For example if a wizard wanted to increase his speed he has to replace his athletics with his spell strength roll, the rules don't allow you to add your spell strength to your athletics.

Doing this as maneuver, as stated above, would be perfectly acceptable and much more in line with how the game is designed.

To be fair, though - I was not talking about replacing a stat with a spell.  I was talking about increasing the weapon rating of a pre-existing weapon with a spell.

I think this would be fair and would also set the groundwork for a character who using evocation to /push/ a bullet faster, creating more damage.

[Drachasor]

To be fair, though - I was not talking about replacing a stat with a spell.  I was talking about increasing the weapon rating of a pre-existing weapon with a spell.

I think this would be fair and would also set the groundwork for a character who using evocation to /push/ a bullet faster, creating more damage.

Yeah, I think replacing the weapon rating is a big no-no.  Either you use the Weapon Rating + any Strength bonus, or you use the spell bonus if you use a spell to make the weapon do damage.  So yeah, if you have Supernatural Strength, there's obviously not a lot of reason to do that (makes sense though).  Like others said though, you can use magic to modify the weapon to satisfy catches or the like.  Potentially you could make a weapon holy to work extra well on demons (best done with Soulfire as far as evocation goes, I'd think).  If you have Seelie Spellcasting, then you could imbue a weapon with Summer to make it extra effective on creatures of Winter.  That sort of thing makes more sense.

Want to make extra damaging bullets?  Possible of course, but you're spell will have to have a higher effect than the weapons rating of the gun.  Also, the person using it would have to use guns when wielding these magic bullets.  I think normally this is a pretty awful trade-off as the power of the spell is probably going to be better than any gun skill (since you still are going to need good discipline to control the spell).  Pretty cool thematically though.

[BumblingBear]

Yeah, I think replacing the weapon rating is a big no-no.  Either you use the Weapon Rating + any Strength bonus, or you use the spell bonus if you use a spell to make the weapon do damage.  So yeah, if you have Supernatural Strength, there's obviously not a lot of reason to do that (makes sense though).  Like others said though, you can use magic to modify the weapon to satisfy catches or the like.  Potentially you could make a weapon holy to work extra well on demons (best done with Soulfire as far as evocation goes, I'd think).  If you have Seelie Spellcasting, then you could imbue a weapon with Summer to make it extra effective on creatures of Winter.  That sort of thing makes more sense.

Want to make extra damaging bullets?  Possible of course, but you're spell will have to have a higher effect than the weapons rating of the gun.  Also, the person using it would have to use guns when wielding these magic bullets.  I think normally this is a pretty awful trade-off as the power of the spell is probably going to be better than any gun skill (since you still are going to need good discipline to control the spell).  Pretty cool thematically though.

My character has sponsored magic too.

I suppose that in a fight he could use his nifty thaumaturgy at the speed of evocation to imbue his bullets with something like "Light Rounds" to give a +2 bonus on each round in the magazine.

This could be a nifty power if someone in the group has the lore rating or the knowledge on what kind of catch a particular beastie has.