Author Topic: Offer to assist on City Creation of...  (Read 3109 times)

Offline tallgrrl

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Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« on: January 05, 2011, 05:24:15 AM »
Cleveland OH-my!  Stop with the jokes!!!  Bob Hope AND Drew Carey are from there, also Paul Newman and Halle Berry and quite a few other famous types!  I've been jotting down some things, some of which can be gotten off the web, but some of which I know because I grew up there and my family has history there.  I don't live too far away now and could probably assist with some other actual exploration too, though I can't do anything that takes too long.  (home situation, caring for an elderly family member so I'm limited by how long I can be gone)  

I'm blown away by the detail of most of the cities so far, if nothing else it's a great history lesson for us all!  

This stuff is as I said general historical info, I'm not sure if I should post this here or not, if not Mods should certainly remove it and I'll apologize for causing trouble!

Old Stone Church - a Presbyterian church, not very large, but a beautifully simple church directly on Public Square, with beautiful stained glass windows, including four created by Louis Comfort Tiffany.  
St. Stanislaus Church - Center of the large Polish ethnic community, (now called ‘Slavic Village’) possibly of interest that one of the spires was destroyed by a tornado, though many people now have heard and believe it was struck by lightning which is also a good story! (though not true)  My parents are from that neighborhood and it’s a very elaborate church so probably quite interesting.
Interesting NOTE: The main street through downtown Cleveland, (Euclid Ave) and one of the primary cross streets, (East 9th Street) is said to have built directly on the location of the place where the Hopewell Indians had placed two major ‘mounds’ (a prehistoric native group [approx 1000 BC, is that prehistoric?] loosely categorized as ‘moundbuilders’ have left many such heaped mounds throughout Ohio) so what is basically the city center is right on a supposed astrological focus of these prehistoric peoples which was unceremoniously destroyed by the city builders…  hmmmm could be a bad thing, or, if the mounds were simply observation points of the Indians, then maybe it’s a GOOD thing, some sort of good focus, no way to be sure.
Great Lakes Brewery - because hey!  Who doesn’t want to have an adventure in a brewery!
West Side Market -  indoor very impressive ‘hall’ that has various deli/bakery/butcher/prepared food stands etc, outdoors booths have semi-sheltered produce, and some flower market stands, open year round.  Been in use since the early 1900’s (either 1909 or 1912 depending on the source)
African American Museum  -  Underground Railroad info etc. There was a lot of abolitionist activity in the area and resistance to ‘slave catchers’ but runaways were still really not safe till they got to Canada or possibly further north to really busy places like NYC.
Grays Armory - built in the 1830s, Civil war recruits went through there, now used as a small to medium venue to host various shows, such as model train shows etc, wrestling events, and such things with a museum section in front.  Not even sure that part is open anymore, but there’s an extensive basement area and back section that are off limits to the public.
Warehouse District - I don't have much on it personally, but there is probably a lot of good fertile ground there.
Cleveland Public Library – great building inside and out, a second building connected by a tunnel to the older one.  Great place overall.
"The Arcade" - a pretty mind blowing mall with a basically glass roof which was one of the first covered malls in the country before the word mall was invented.  It started as just a bunch of shops under a common roof then grew... it got quite run down but is now thoroughly restored.
The Cleveland Metroparks -- Half circular shaped loop of parkway land that would seem to be a good place for fey life?  Called the “Emerald Necklace” due to the shape, and includes the Zoo, a Botanic Garden, several museums (artifacts possibly?) and part of the Western Reserve land, the Cleveland Mounted Police stable, and some Lake Erie waterfront property too… quite interesting actually, when seen on a map it starts up at the lake and drapes down around the city and back up with an almost a pendant shape at the base leading to the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, possibly/probably including a cemetery or two, going to check that out.
Oh, a note about the Zoo!!  
IT CAME FROM THE CLEVELAND ZOO
In August of 1972, eight different people of the Brookside Park area, just west of the Cleveland Zoo, reported seeing a “monster animal” more than seven feet tall. The creature was described as being “huge, with large claws and empty eyes.” What makes the report so unusual is that the creature was said to be walking away from the zoo and seemed to be “sometimes there and sometimes not.” Zoo officials investigated, fearing that one of their gorillas may have escaped. All of their animals were accounted for, but behind a fence north of the zoo were found bushes matted down as if a large creature had pushed through. The incident was never properly explained. (from _Warren Tribute Chronicle_ 9/14/72) (Dimensional Shambler?)
Terminal Tower - A (semi)Famous landmark (in Cleveland at least!) Once the tallest building in the city, all the commuter trains (called the ‘Rapid Transit’ system, or just ‘the Rapid’ to Clevelanders) converge in the station in the basement.  GOTTA be a labyrinth of tunnels and passageways there!  (or could be for game purposes!)
Franklin Castle -  (also called the Tiedemann House)   Built in 1865 by Hannes Tiedemann.  It’s said that the Tiedemanns were cursed because after their first daughter died in 1881, the remaining three children followed afterward, one each consecutive year.  To distract his wife, Mr Tiedemann started to add onto the house and it started to look more and more like a castle (turrets, gargoyles, crenelated façade etc.)  The adult Tiedemanns each died of natural causes, she in 1895 (liver disease… a little drinking perhaps?) he somewhat later of a stroke and the property was sold at least a couple times, rumored to have hidden passageways and rooms, and to have been used for bootlegging and as a speakeasy in the 20s during prohibition.
Its last full time residents were the Romano’s who lived there till 1974 but then sold it and moved out in part due to purported encounters with ghosts, including by the youngest daughter who supposedly often played with a ghostly little girl.  (guess that was a last straw)
Whisky Island – It is really a man made peninsula now, home to a marina and dock area, not an island at all anymore since the late 1820s.  The peninsula was formed when the mouth of the Cuyahoga river was ‘moved’ to allow for a more clear shipping channel.  Before that there was more of an island though it was actually surrounded by swamp more so than water.  The Carter farm was there as far back as 1796 (owned by Lorenzo Carter) and later a distillery too which is why the name, and then after/during the rechanneling in circa 1827 many of the Irish immigrants who worked on the project as well as many other construction and manual labor jobs in the area were established there.    There was also for a time a hospital called the “pest house” shortly after a major Cholera epidemic where many of the poor simply went to die.
Most of the Irish immigrants moved of their own volition when other housing became available, but it was pretty much a hell hole of squalor for some time.  One Irish bar in ‘The Flats’ as the general area up river of Whisky Island came to be called was named “The Flat Iron” and was once a very rough place… there is now a revival of The Flats where merchants are trying to develop a riverfront setting with new bars and restaurants but the area should be a source of haunts and trouble.
NASA Glen Research Center - There’s a NASA division attached to the Cleveland Airport grounds… could be interesting!
Squire’s Castle - now a roofless ruin but it’s a very interesting place built by Fergus Squire and said to be haunted by his wife Rebecca.  (probably not true because she died elsewhere, …or so we’re told)
Cleveland State Hospital (grounds) - Originally known as the Northern Ohio Lunatic Asylum it’s actually been demolished, but could still be standing in a “DresdenVerse Cleveland” a very creepy eerie place, I saw it when it was still standing but deserted… I had an Aunt who worked there in the forties… it was a BAD place back then.  She hated it but needed the job.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - of course, sort of an ugly monstrosity but could be very cool IG.
Stan Hywet Hall - Actually in Akron which is quite a bit south of Cleveland, but possible for some field trip down the way.
Cuyahoga Valley National Park, quite a bit south too, but very accessible, area has Amerind grounds and early settler area, duh, kinda go together like, fire and water… or is that fire and oil?
Hale Farm and Village – Living history museum set up, not sure if it’s really useful, sort of on hold for now but could be a sort of ace in the hole.
Limestone ledges and caves in Medina… the “Old Man’s Cabin” burned out ruin purported to be haunted  Also a fair distance, but may have some small potential.

I know I missed a lot of stuff too, but this is one evenings thunkings so who knows what else is possible.  There's a couple college campuses in the city too, Burk Lakefront Airport right on the lake, a ballfield, football stadium, basketball arena, Playhouse Square with several renovated theaters.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 01:53:23 PM by tallgrrl »
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Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 07:31:45 AM »
Oh, god... home sweet, thank god I'm not there anymore, home.

Okay, being an escaped Clevelander, I'll throw in my two cents, mostly on feel and mood.

First off, Cleveland has the feel of two cities, East and West, joined by a common location and separated by the Cuyahoga River (which was so polluted that, yes, it caught on fire four times, a fact the city has yet to live down); most people from either side don't venture past the river and downtown much, and there's a strong cultural divide between the two. 

Next, I-270.  This is the primary highway through the city, East to West.  Having now driven in Boston, I can honestly say that I-270, especially during rush hours, is comparable in bad driving behavior, but it's the only way across the city in less than an hour.  I'd say, from personal experience, that getting from North Olmstead (West Side) to Cleveland Heights (East Side) a drive of 37 miles, in less than 40 minutes during the day requires a Great or Superb Driving roll (it takes my father about 45 minutes).  High points of the trip are the airport, where the traffic is especially challenging, and the Valleyview Bridge, a large bridge a few miles south of Downtown (you can see the skyline on most days); the cops love to have a speedtrap at the Westbound end of the bridge, due to its slope. 

However, for most daily traffic needs, one takes the streets.  Cleveland's outskirts are--loosely--based on a large grid pattern, but the side- and sub-streets between the main thoroughfares can be as straight or twisted as one can imagine.  And downtown itself is a tangle of sidestreets and one-way streets. 

Downtown; we have Case Western Reserve University, which was originally two universities--Case and Western Reserve--that joined up.  Good school, but is smack dab in the middle of downtown; also noted for having one of the ugliest buildings known to mankind.  Other locations of cultural note are the museums in the area: Art, Natural History, Great Lakes Science Center, Rock And Roll Hall of Fame, and the Western Reserve Historical Society. 

Sports: If you love sports, there's a therapy group: it's called everybody, and they meet down at the local bar.  Cleveland sports teams suck, and the recent hullabaloo about No-Brains James is in danger of applying Poe's Law to itself. 

The Libraries: My personal favorites.  There are 57 branches (in two associated systems) spread across the city, ranging in side from single-story small-but-healthy all the way up to the National Archives' little brother.  The branch on Lee Road, in particular, is gigantic and gorgeous, especially for a district branch.  Cleveland has the best library system in the country, and it's probably the one thing I miss about the city itself.  (There's a 50 item checkout limit, btw)

More later; it's getting late here. 
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Offline tallgrrl

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 03:07:56 PM »
Hey Bibliophile20, I spent 20 years away from 'home' and I gotta tell you, coming back is a mixed blessing.  Things are both worse and better, but I do have a new appreciation for the good things around here, and there really are good things.

There are several points about the 'feel of two cities' you talk about, which I totally get BTW, was at one time actual literal fact.  The area around the West Side Market was(is?) in an area that was once a distinct city named Ohio City.  As early as the late 17oo's there was a floating bridge over the river which would be floated aside to allow for boat traffic. It was owned jointly by Ohio City and Cleveland which were back then called by some 'Sister Cities' or even 'Twin Cities' (yeah yeah, this ain't Minnesota but there it is.) Anyway, the two cities had a close relationship but when a new sturdier and more permanent bridge was built in 1836 just a bit upriver that routed traffic away from Ohio City, the residents there got upset and boycotted that bridge and pressured the carters and coach traffic to do the same.  When the Cleveland council removed THEIR half of the older floating bridge in retaliation, the Ohio City residents and businessmen got a mob together and headed for the new bridge... Hence the "Bridge War" which didn't amount to much but was a start of that whole Two City feel as opposed to the once Twin City attitude.

It all relates to the same thing, it's not a smooth transition between the two areas and even now with lots of modern bridges, the Cuyahoga is a defining creature, the name is by all accounts a mispronounced Iroquois word that meant "Crooked River" and there are many businesses named in that fashion.  Crooked River Brewery, Crooked River Coffee, Crooked River Grill, Crooked... well, you get the idea. It won't burn anymore BTW and the fish population is getting healthier and healthier, though I still wouldn't recommend eating what you catch out of it.  (I live RIGHT on it BTW, though very much upriver from Cleveland and it really IS a VERY crooked river so it starts further north east than Cleveland is, flows south then loops west and north again... very odd!  Up in Cleveland, it twists and turns and causes all sorts of stress for road and bridge builders.

Oh, I found an unattributed comment that says that Cleveland shows up in Lovecraft’s “The Shadow Over Innsmouth” as being the city of residence for the narrator’s maternal relatives, the Williamson’s. And it just happens to be the side of the family with that nasty Deep One strain flowing through their veins.  ...I don't know if it's true or not, maybe someone who's into Lovecraft more can confirm?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 03:10:01 PM by tallgrrl »
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Offline tallgrrl

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 12:20:07 AM »
*grumble brumble* ... I just went over and ordered the stupid game.  I haven't played PnP in more years than I care to remember, this is a whole nuther critter than I ever played anyway, I have no idea if there is a group anywhere near who might play, I don't see any way I could be out of the house long enough to really play even if I did, but I just WANTED the darn thing!  ...I'm blaming it on my jonesing for Ghost Story!!!!!!
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Offline deathwombat

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 12:22:58 AM »
Good luck with the gaming
Were I closer i'd game with you
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Offline redzen9

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 11:06:13 PM »
tallgrrl, do you have a group already?  My group and I play on the west side and were looking to sit down with a couple other people to knock out a "definitive" look at Cleveland.  I/we would be interested in your ideas as well to see what we all come up with.  Let me know if this is of interest.  We are looking at the salt mines as a possible supernatural holding cell or storage of items of power that could be misused.  That amount of bad juju giving Cleveland an aura of bad luck.

Offline tallgrrl

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 03:52:21 AM »
Cool!  No I don't have a group, I got rather distracted and lost track of things.  A friend suggested I go to Kent and check out notices or put some of my own up at the student union... never actually did though. 

I'd have some trouble meeting up, though I'd be willing to try.  I care for my 92 year old father and while he's in decent health etc, I'm nervous about being away for too long.  Still, I'm a good researcher.  Do we/you really have to give Cleveland more bad luck than it already has?   :D  kidding!  (sort of)  I'm actually rather fond of some parts of it and get irritated at anyone except Drew Carry or other fellow Clevelanders picking on it.  It just gets SO old!  (no matter that it's at least partially deserved!)
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Offline redzen9

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 10:49:55 PM »
You misunderstand, my group and I figure Cleveland being confounded is due to our duty to keep the items of power safe.  Not giving it more.

Are you an east sider or west sider? We can figure out a time and place to meet.

If not, allow me to point out some good stuff we came up with.  Black Court presence in Slavic Village that doesn't grow due to the population of eatern europeans, however the vampire there is tough, so no one has slain them.

Tremont and Coventry are good neighborhoods to use as well. 

W14th(Tremont) has a boatload of churches of different denominations as well that we figure are in a loose confederation to help with the supernatural.  They don't agree on how to worship, but for the greater good will help if needed.

Two additional resources is the institute of metaphysical divine research on W 25th as well as Zubal Books.  Zubal is just an excellent NPC or PC idea.  Check both out online.  Can't figure out if IMDR should be good or bad.

Offline redzen9

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 10:57:24 PM »
Oh and due to its classic in the middle of it place.  We figure Euclid Ave is a ley line, as Butcher points out there are tons in the Great Lake region when speaking of Demonreach.

There is an old "subway" path under Superior that we figure is either an entrance to the Nevernever or a version of undertown.
http://clevelanddesigncity.com/2009/08/18/cleveland-sketch-crawl-detroit-superior-subway-bridge-tour/


Other things I mentioned.....
http://www.zubalbooks.com/

http://www.idmr.net/

Offline Bruce Coulson

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 04:17:05 PM »
In addition to the previously mentioned museums, there's a couple more that might be resources..

There's a ore freighter museum just behind the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.  Cleveland was the center of Great Lakes shipping for a long time, and there's a lot of shipwrecks not that far away.  A confrontation in the freighter (lots of huge empty spaces and narrow hatchways) could be interesting...

The U.S.S. Cod is also on the waterfront; a WW II era submarine open for tours.  Echoes of past victories and combat...

There's also a museum dedicated to women in aviation near the Cod.  Some interesting relics and history; the ghost of a militant Suffragette, perhaps?

(I'm in Columbus, so we go to Cleveland every so often, but only as tourists.)
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Offline tallgrrl

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Re: Offer to assist on City Creation of...
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2011, 03:30:52 AM »
Actually.... I read something about a theory about Euclid ave being on a ley line, and that there was an Indian mound right around where Public Square is, gonna go look for that again.   Oh, I'm pretty far east of Cleveland now. Portage County, not far from where Geauga Lake was (well, it's still a lake named Geauga, just not a park anymore)  Easy drive to the city though time is a factor for me. 
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