Author Topic: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription  (Read 6031 times)

Offline Lanir

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2010, 02:06:14 AM »
As an aside, is it possible that the player in question thinks he wants connections to Outsiders, but is really looking for more of a Nevernever-type being?  Keep in mind that in the Dresdenverse, the various Greek/Roman/Norse/etc gods and demigods, Christian demons and angels, and other such beings are considered beings of the Nevernever rather than truly 'beyond the gates'.  Perhaps he'd be happy re-writing his sponsor as a power being banished to the outer reaches of the Nevernever?

You're thinking some darker power like Hel or Hades/Saturn or The Morrigan maybe? They're all pretty much just different variations on death gods or goddesses. While not being Outsiders they should all have more than enough spooky mojo to keep your guys quaking in their boots. For that matter some of them aren't all that honorable so if you're dealing with intermediaries they might not care to correct a mistaken impression that the PC is dealing with Outsiders (although I'd imagine the deities themselves would make a point of correcting you pretty harshly unless they're the trickster type... Loki or Coyote anyone?).

Offline Becq

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2010, 05:07:59 PM »
You're thinking some darker power like Hel or Hades/Saturn or The Morrigan maybe? They're all pretty much just different variations on death gods or goddesses. While not being Outsiders they should all have more than enough spooky mojo to keep your guys quaking in their boots. For that matter some of them aren't all that honorable so if you're dealing with intermediaries they might not care to correct a mistaken impression that the PC is dealing with Outsiders (although I'd imagine the deities themselves would make a point of correcting you pretty harshly unless they're the trickster type... Loki or Coyote anyone?).
Something like that.  That way the player could have his 'bad boy' vibe, keep his general concept intact, and not be instantly broken down into his constituent molecules by the 7th Law police.  Not to say that he would be making lots of friends, but it's a middle ground.

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2010, 05:33:57 PM »
Sounds like a good compromise to me.

Offline A.J.O.D.

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2010, 06:41:37 PM »
so ive taken all the advise from you guys and i think ill ask they guy to maybe be powered by a more evil or dark god. i f that wont fly with him ill just tell him to come up with something else

Offline newtinmpls

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 09:37:53 AM »
"i think ill ask they guy to maybe be powered by a more evil or dark god. i f that wont fly with him ill just tell him to come up with something else"

Red flag city here for me. My understanding is that "outsiders" are essentially loosely based on cthulu godlings, and any emisary would be insane (at best) and not playable. Then the idea of any PC wanting to be powered by 'evil' - no, just no. I finally had to tell one potential player that he needed to find a way to be a good guy. Anti-hero, fine. Ornery as House, fine. But he could not be evil/a jerk/whatever... He left.

Dian

Offline Sitrein

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 12:46:39 PM »
Okay so a few things. First off, it's a bitch and a half to get an actual outsider into our world. They're sealed off at the Outer Gates and guarded by the Gatekeeper (and who knows what other reality loving helpers).

Past that, let's say it did work - and don't misunderstand, I'm not saying this concept is good or even that I'd allow it in my games (I wouldn't) but just for theory's sake - so some power in the world is trying to get an outsider here through an architectural spell form. Magic on that level would almost certainly not be point and click but need some power flowing in. Let's say the Caster in question is a dark wizard of some degree who's had the outsider whispering in his mind to slowly drive him insane and thus into doing this stupid ritual.

The Nameless Architect takes the basics of the spellform and maps it out to the point that it's ready to be built. The Dark Wizard is paranoid as fuck of the wardens finding out so he makes sure that no one knows what they're building except the architect (has him sign a confidentiality agreement). I imagine this would make construction a pain but give the Dark Wizard some bonuses to resources and you're good. Money buys complexity. This makes the Nameless Architect a necessary resource as well as a threat to the paranoid Dark Wizard.

When the building is complete the dark wizard now needs to power it. The building will look harmless from the outside, masking the spellform within it. The Dark Wizard will power it with blood and does this through knocking out and tying up the 5 highest ranking people working on the building; the people who knew the most about what it was. This of course includes our hero, the Nameless Architect. Yeah, I'm going to start calling him NA and Dark Wizard DW.

He aligns the 5 people at the 5 corners of the spellform and begins the ritual killing them one by one. The Gatekeeper of course knows about what's going on (though of course not from Chronomancy because that would be illegal >>....) but can't act too directly due to paradox so has the wardens sent in at JUST the right moment to cause the spell to be interrupted in with NA and 1 other left alive. For simplicity's sake let's say they were all awake and gagged, though not blindfolded, before the spell started and NA has been trying to get free.

The spell goes BOOM! This kills the DW and perhaps sends people flying back against walls and the like. NA manages to free his hands, unties his legs and bolts. the Wardens (let's say one cracks his head open and dies or is so close to death that the other can't worry about the bolting prisoner and the still tied up prisoner while saving his brother in arms.

While the Outsider wasn't freed the gateway was opened to him enough to at least send a portion of himself into who would have been the DW but he died so it instead went to NA who had the closest personal connection to the Outsider other than DW because of the personal touches put into the spellform/building. This causes NA to take the power Demonic Co-Pilot.

Over time the Outsider's Image (OI) will tempt him and turn him but probably not "Mark" him (as with Marked by Power) because it will want to stay hidden. Because he didn't willingly do any of this he wouldn't qualify for the Lawbreaker stunt (yet) but if a warden found out about the OI, he would probably convict NA of breaking the 7th. This gives two options: take power from the OI as harry did with lash or stick with just the OI. If NA takes power then, depending on the outsider, you can go in one of two ways. Either this is primarily physical granting things like toughness (anti-magic like an outsider), Speed, Strength, Recovery, etc. or Sponsored Magic. I would simply disallow the latter right here and now because you'd have to create your own Sponsored Magic for outsiders because, no, it wouldn't be the same as hellfire or anything else for that matter. Hell, it might even be unique to this one outsider. Either way, for EVERY power granted by OI it would be a separate violation of the 7th Law and this time earning him the Lawbreaker [7th] stunt each time. I would probably also have the sponsored magic's rule with debt for every time he invoked the physical things, also.

If NA takes power from OI at all then yes, he's a Lawbreaker and the warden in the party will be REQUIRED to behead him or become a warlock himself. If NA doesn't then OI can  go by unnoticed and just provide really in-depth flavor to the story until he "comes out" to the party. By this point they will know NA, the good in him and likely hear him out. The Warden will be conflicted but likely side with NA as someone who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - Not a Lawbreaker. Past that, he will require NA to turn himself in and thus be able to be helped by the council. The Gatekeeper will see the poor soul that is NA when this happens. He can free NA after finding out what happened (thus preventing time paradox!) by banishing the OI back beyond the gate.

The main problem with this is that that's the ONLY way I can see this working other than everyone becoming warlocks. In other words it would be STUPIDLY complex for NO GOOD GOD DAMN REASON! Simply put: Don't allow it. Why? The above.

Offline finnmckool

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Re: I dont hav an issue i have a subscription
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 05:22:19 AM »
My only unnoted note: your friend is awesome for pulling out the sweet Ghostbusters character.

As to above cool ass story, the better way for the ritual to end and for the NA to escape is if we go a bit more Ghostbusters and the thwarted ritual destroys the hell out of the building. Then NA can escape in the rubble along with whoever the heck else you want to bring back in later.

That aside...yikes, that is a scary character concept that could get everyone killed, though I like the "If you kill me you damn us all," concept. In fact I think this makes this a nearly workable concept, though boy howdy it will truly make things Chinese interesting for the other players that's for sure, and no one is going to like him. Ever. Any time he does anything everyone clued in will wince, or reflexively go for a weapon just to be safe. My only problem with the whole thing is what the hell does God need with a starship? Seriously why the hell would an Outsider bother? But then, HWWB bothers with us all the time so... /shrug

But again...they're so alien as to be unknowable and how do you NPC that stuff? Yuck.