Author Topic: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games  (Read 10385 times)

Offline Morfedel

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2011, 07:59:53 PM »
The only other FATE game I've read in depth is Diaspora, but there are a number of variations on the rules from it that I've considered using:

1) Allowing a free tag on an aspect to be a compel instead of an invoke.
2) Limiting non-free aspect invocations to one per context (personal, scene, zone, etc).
3) The entire social combat system, which I'm going to use for a trial in my Dresden Files game.

So bow does social combat work I'm Diaspora?

Offline TheMouse

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2011, 09:07:04 PM »
So bow does social combat work I'm Diaspora?

It uses an abstract map. You move yourself and others around the map, with certain zones meaning certain end results (which you negotiate before play begins).

It's sort of hard to explain briefly. It's really different from DFRPG, though.

Offline Amseriah

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011, 05:00:31 AM »
I must go ahead and state before I ask this question that I haven't read Strands of Fate yet and am just going on what I was told briefly by a friend of mine who is reading it.  Apparently it makes use of attributes, not just inhuman + atts.  Has anyone played around with placing this within the DFRPG framework and if so how did it work?

Offline newtinmpls

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2011, 06:27:45 AM »
Hey, if you are willing, I would like to hear more about these!

1) Allowing a free tag on an aspect to be a compel instead of an invoke.
2) Limiting non-free aspect invocations to one per context (personal, scene, zone, etc).
3) The entire social combat system, which I'm going to use for a trial in my Dresden Files game.

Offline newtinmpls

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Alas I was not clear! Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2011, 06:36:29 AM »
I’d said:
“By making the PC's think about what aspects they  use or could use and setting them up (the potential of that use) beforehand, I try to avoid the feel of "oh, that wasn't real/what I wanted/It's sort of a do-over" If I can always find/add/invoke another aspect after the fact, I sacrifice suspension of disbelief. Of course it also makes the universe less safe. But that makes it more fun/real/scary.”

The reply:
“Also, forcing a player to decide if they want to use fate points beforehand seems that it would disrupt the FATE point economy. I would assume they would be conserving their points until they got a healthy supply and then letting them loose at key points. I guess it could work, but it seems that it might screw-up the feel and flow of the game.”

No, I don’t have anyone decide if they are going to USE the FATE points, but if they haven’t described their action so as to use the nearby tree, the light switch or the time to aim, then they don’t get to “go back and do it over” and suddenly rake in every aspect they can now suddenly think of.

I’m used to HARN as I said, and there one of the standard GM tactics has been to compliment/reward especially clever role playing by saying “take a roll in rhetoric” (or whatever applicable skill). The skills are based on % and go up quite slowly, so it’s easy to be generous with such rewards and it encourages role playing.

Dian

Offline newtinmpls

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Vampire example Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 06:47:02 AM »
“I think you're viewing "limited by their nature" in a particularly narrow way.”

Possibly. I think everyone with a body is influenced by their nature; I don’t make such a distinction between “monster” and “mortal” maybe because I see plenty of mortal monsters, so to speak.

“Let's look at something like a Black Court vampire.”

Ah, here is where the difference in how each GM runs their campaign comes in! Love it!

“Being bound by its nature means”
1-“They need to feed.”

And I understand they NEED to feed on blood, and PREFER to feed on human blood AND on blood from a living being (as opposed to robbing a blood bank, or something like that).

2-“They don't respect the sanctity of human life.”

This one I wouldn’t say is as binding as the first one. Yes, I think that most sentient beings that eat don’t really respect the sanctity of the lives of their prey, but I also think this is a cultural, rather than a biological, issue (see any number of essays by Peter Singer). It has exceptions – not many, but they are there, and sometimes those exceptions make the game more enjoyable.

3-“They can't go into the sun.”

Without some serious mojo/sunblock or something. Which I may or may not use; but you are right, and this might make for a nifty underground (or Nevernever chase scene where “getting to the sunlight” will save the day.

4-“They look like corpses.”

Yup. Which actually brings up a question as to what the black court equivalent of a red court ‘infected’ would look like. The Dracula novel implies that they would still look human; I’m playing around with this idea.

“It's just that, at the end of the day, that interesting character will be a monster.” <snip> “In short, being bound by one's nature doesn't translate to needing to be boring or simple.”

On that, we do definitely agree.

Dian

Offline TheMouse

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2011, 04:19:38 PM »
I must go ahead and state before I ask this question that I haven't read Strands of Fate yet and am just going on what I was told briefly by a friend of mine who is reading it.  Apparently it makes use of attributes, not just inhuman + atts.  Has anyone played around with placing this within the DFRPG framework and if so how did it work?

Strands uses a list of 12 abilities, which for all intents and purposes are a generic skill list. In and of themselves, they function exactly like a list of skills.

There's also a system whereby you can acquire what amount to specialties. So if your dude is a good juggler, you can take a juggling related specialty rather than give him a higher dexterity in general.

Then there are powers to add to your strength, speed, or endurance. It scales way higher than DF, so it can handle Superman type characters. In order to get access to this level of power, you need to be on the super hero scale of characters.

I haven't spent any real time trying to fit DF into the Strands rules, because I prefer the rules found in DFRPG. To make my bias explicit, I would classify myself as not a fan of SoF.

Offline JesterOC

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2011, 05:30:31 PM »
1) Allowing a free tag on an aspect to be a compel instead of an invoke.
Off hand this seems OK, I assume that the victim will get a FATE point for the compel. Might end up being used against the PC's more than by the PC's.

2) Limiting non-free aspect invocations to one per context (personal, scene, zone, etc).
Also seems fine, it seems that it is there to prevent PC's from having several very similar aspects and then piling them on during a conflict. So far this is not an issue with my group due because many similar aspects are boring so my player's avoid it naturally.

3) The entire social combat system, which I'm going to use for a trial in my Dresden Files game.
I have not tried it, but one of the things I like about pure Dresden Files Social conflict is that it can go on during a physical conflict. In fact almost all of our conflicts have involved some social attacks in the middle of a fight. I would assume the Diaspora mini game does not do that. (I don't know).

JesterOC


Offline devonapple

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2011, 07:16:59 PM »
I like the Diaspora idea of a map for purely social venues for a Social Conflict, but I would still use and allow standard DFRPG Social Conflict rules to take place during a Physical Conflict. The Diaspora social conflict map idea can serve as a fine elaboration on an Extended Skill Challenge as well.
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Offline devonapple

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2011, 05:48:39 PM »
Re: Strands of FATE...

What is your impression of the ratio between Refresh in DFRPG and the Power costs in SoF?  I'm thinking it seems to be a 1:3 ratio, but it could be 1:4. I still need to go through and find a few more powers to compare between the two systems.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
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Offline TheMouse

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2011, 06:51:12 PM »
Re: Strands of FATE...

What is your impression of the ratio between Refresh in DFRPG and the Power costs in SoF?  I'm thinking it seems to be a 1:3 ratio, but it could be 1:4. I still need to go through and find a few more powers to compare between the two systems.

Strands suggests that 2 points of Refresh are worth 3 Advantage Points. I haven't done a thorough enough comparison to know whether it would be a good or bad idea to carry that between Dresden and Strands.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2011, 07:12:11 PM »
Strands suggests that 2 points of Refresh are worth 3 Advantage Points. I haven't done a thorough enough comparison to know whether it would be a good or bad idea to carry that between Dresden and Strands.

Cool - if you happened to know the page reference where it says that, I'd appreciate the help. I'm going back and forth between sections rather than plumbing through from beginning to end, and I have yet to find the section you mention.

As for that balance... in DFRPG, Wings is a 1-Refresh power, but clumsy Flight in SoF costs 3 Advantage Points, and I suspect it would need an upgrade to become more comparable to its DFRPG equivalent. But that's all I've got so far.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

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Offline Amseriah

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2011, 07:21:07 PM »
A slight peculiarity that I saw with regards to how the Power Advantages work in Strands of Fate is that almost all of them require the expenditure of a Fate Point to activate, including your super-attributes, claws, flight, etc.  So powers that are basically always on (with the exception of characters that have things tied to hunger tracks or shapeshifting).  I think that makes the powers in Dresden more powerful than in Strands of Fate, so that might be a consideration, unless you just want to remove that requirement for the SoF powers when converting to DFRPG.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2011, 08:00:57 PM »
A slight peculiarity that I saw with regards to how the Power Advantages work in Strands of Fate is that almost all of them require the expenditure of a Fate Point to activate, including your super-attributes, claws, flight, etc.  So powers that are basically always on (with the exception of characters that have things tied to hunger tracks or shapeshifting).  I think that makes the powers in Dresden more powerful than in Strands of Fate, so that might be a consideration, unless you just want to remove that requirement for the SoF powers when converting to DFRPG.

So maybe we consider a 1 Refresh:4 Power Advantage ratio, and then factor in a Power Advantage "No Fate Point Needed" for 1 point of Power Advantage.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
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Offline devonapple

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Re: Adapting Rules from Other FATE Games
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2011, 08:17:15 PM »
Strands suggests that 2 points of Refresh are worth 3 Advantage Points. I haven't done a thorough enough comparison to know whether it would be a good or bad idea to carry that between Dresden and Strands.

I'm beginning to wonder as well - characters get these Power Advantages *in addition to* Refresh points.
"Like a voice, like a crack, like a whispering shriek
That echoes on like it’s carpet-bombing feverish white jungles of thought
That I’m positive are not even mine"

Blackout, The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets