Wererhino: The Catch?

[Cyberchihuahua]

..."always horny" not a catch but a great trouble aspect.

..."You have something on your nose".

[ralexs1991]

Maybe people against that are just hung up on "Powers" being supernatural.Since the books specifically say that, then perhaps you could state chapter and verse.

YS82 it says that were-forms must take atleast one of the inhuman skills

[vultur]

YS82 it says that were-forms must take atleast one of the inhuman skills

While I think you're right -- a rhino is going to be at least as strong as an ogre, so big animals should indeed have Toughness and Strength powers ...

...I'm not sure natural wolves necessarily have Inhuman Strength just because werewolves do. Bob's comments in the RPG also say that 'classic' werewolves don't generally change mass, which would make the average werewolf absolutely freakishly huge by wolf standards. Gray wolves vary a lot in size between different populations (northern ones larger, southern ones smaller) but it tends to be in the range of 60-100 pounds (red wolves, and the wolves in the Middle East and India, are smaller) -- so an adult human werewolf is likely to be about double the mass of a normal wolf (and similar to the freakish, record-sized individuals -- 175 pounds seems to be the record, at least in North America).

(Natural wolves should still have Inhuman Speed though.)

[siggelsworth]

If I've read correctly, Inhuman Strength/Toughness/etc. are not REQUIRED but rather are an option for a Were-Form by way of YS82-83:
Musts:"At least two refresh points’ worth of abilities from the options list below."
"Options: The character may take up to two of these abilities—Inhuman Recovery [–2] (page 185), Inhuman Speed [–2] (page 178), Inhuman Strength [–2] (page 183), or Inhuman Toughness [–2] (page 185)—so long as those abilities are in sync with the animal form he assumes.  Similarly, abilities may be taken from the Creature Feature category (page 162) or the Minor Ability category (page 169) if they can be shown to be a part of the creature’s natural advantages." 

So, at least 2 Refresh need to be spent on some combination of Inhuman ___, Creature Feature, and/or Minor Ability powers.  If the were-form doesn't change mass automatically, then it is presumed to not automatically benefit from any of the "powers" that a naturally occuring animal would have like toughness.  In our games, the player has to spend Refresh to purchase Wings, Claws, Toughness, Speed, or anything else that their animal form ought to benefit from; if they don't, then it is played as though--even if visually present--the shape shifter does not have sufficient training/control to properly utilize them.

Keep in mind that the skill shuffle still permits for some pretty amazing shifts in power.  A weakling with Average Endurance, Might and Fists shifts into a bear with Superb Endurance, Might, and Fists...that's three +4 gains in combat effectiveness without buying any powers!  IMO, this represents the "natural" improvement in toughness: a low-Endurance PC can shuffle their skills to get more tough, whereas a high-Endurance PC is already a bear of a man!

[sjksprocket]

 

I don't think natural creatures should have supernatural based toughness powers. We should probably expand the Hulking Size powers to allow a Large Size that's between normal and Hulking, and maybe include a "tough hide" power that is size dependent and only applies to the 3.5 DND Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing style of damage.

The supernatural powers are supernatural for a human. a human that would have the toughness of a rino would be beyond natural aka supernatural. but the toughness of a rino is natural for, lets say, a rino, so it would not be supernatural. It's called "Inhuman toughness", and since rinos aren't human, hey it fits. The whole nomenclature is based around humans.

But to something that was said earlier:
Just because a powerful weapon has wasted energy on a human, doesn't mean it doesn't still expend said energy each time. The bonus of a six shift weapon is not that it could fulfill a catch, but that it is a a six shift friggin weapon, that's pretty powerful on its own. the point of a catch is to make it so a three shift weapon that would normally effect said animal like a six shift weapon still works properly. If you take a look at two wounds done by high powered rifle, on against a human and one against a bear, the wound is bigger on the human because the natural toughness of the bear made it take comparatively less damage. Even if the rifle could, and did, take down the bear the damage was still reduced by the toughness of the bear. Try going hunting (anything), and you'll find this out real quick, trust me.

[Peteman]

I still think animals that are inhumanly tough are usually that way because they're just frakkin' big.

[devonapple]

We could go the opposite way and specify that the Toughness *only* works against mundane weapons/claws/bullets/cars/rifles/etc., and that magic or other supernatural sources of damage satisfy the Catch. This is only a rough draft, but how does it sound as a start?

[MyNinjaH8sU]

I still think animals that are inhumanly tough are usually that way because they're just frakkin' big.

Then why not just use Hulking Size? That seems to make plenty of sense here.

[Peteman]

Then why not just use Hulking Size? That seems to make plenty of sense here.

I'm not the one arguing for a rhino Catch.

[devonapple]

In OW 91, regarding Warped Beasts: "Weaknesses: Still just an animal." They are not given any Toughness powers.

And the average Werewolf in OW 92 has no supernatural toughness, either: "Weaknesses: Classic werewolves are just big and tough wolves, with no extra defenses."

Edit: And Moe the Gorilla? (OW 195). No toughness, either. Just many skill points in Might, Fists, Athletics, Endurance, and an extra mild consequence from having a Superb in one of those skills. The book even categorizes him as a "Pure Mortal," believe it or not!

In the absence of a DFRPG Bestiary of common animals, it may just be that tough animals - and theriomorphs based on those animals - need to take a higher Endurance or other physical skills, qualify for additional consequence spts, and maybe purchase some Stunts which add stress boxes on a one-for-one basis.

[Sanctaphrax]

Just here to point out that there is a (non-canon) DFRPG Bestiary on the Resources board.

PS: Moe the gorilla's Pure Mortalness annoys me greatly. He should have Inhuman Strength. They gave him four stunts that, together, are more or less the same as Inhuman Strength in both cost and effect. Besides, a gorilla is inhumanly strong by any reasonable measure.

[sinker]

I would like to point out (Aftermath spoilers)

(click to show/hide)

Billy seems to have gained Inhuman Recovery, technically a toughness power requiring a catch.

We are talking about a were-rhino not a rhino. This is a supernatural being that could have supernatural toughness.

[Richard_Chilton]

That could also be handled by modular shapeshifting ability.

Richard

[sjksprocket]

That could also be handled by modular shapeshifting ability.

Richard

I think that might be pretty expensive though for one or two abilities. and you wouldn't get the full effect because you only have one form, the modular ability o think is only for shape shifters who have multiple forms.

[devonapple]

I think that might be pretty expensive though for one or two abilities. and you wouldn't get the full effect because you only have one form, the modular ability o think is only for shape shifters who have multiple forms.

Modular is a pretty hefty surcharge for someone who is just taking one form, yes.