Monsters with nonstandard attacks

[Escher]

So I've just started playing around with the system, and I have a few questions.  My background is in system-heavy games like D&D or Mutants & Masterminds, so I'm probably just overthinking this... but still.

I was trying to build a changeling harpy girl as an experiment.  I gave her Human Form, which restricts her Wings and Claws to operating only when she lets the faerie side out, but the really critical parts I'm not sure how to do.

I think I finally worked out how to make Siren Song work:  It's Incite Emotion (trance) with the At Range upgrade (if you can call trance an emotion), and the primary use of it is for Blocking the target, spending her action to mesmerize somebody with her song.

But I also wanted to give her a Harpy's Scream attack, and I just can't figure out how to do what I want it to do.  I looked at writing it up as a sonic breath weapon, but that wasn't really what I wanted -- It's a single target attack when I think an area effect is really more what I'm looking for, and it uses the Weapon skill.  I can't see how being good with knives and javelins translates to using a sonic scream more effectively.

What I really had in mind was a Weapon:2 attack that uses some other skill (I don't know, maybe Endurance or Discipline) and has a whole area effect on the area she's currently in, shattering all the glass and smashing small objects in her vicinity.  I'd be okay if it does some backlash stress to her in the process -- In fact, what I'm looking for could probably be done as a her knowing a single rote spell (and perhaps substitute endurance for conviction in the role of "how much power I can put in").

Any help or ideas?

[noclue]

I'd probably go with a breath weapon that uses Endurance, or one that uses Weapons but give it a stunt that increases the harpy's Weapons skill only for the Scream.

[Drashna]

You could call call the "Incite Emotion" just "Harpy Song", name doesn't matter, just effect.

And as for both incite emotion (at range) and breath weapon, you could theoretically do a spread attack with both, which would effect multiple targets.  (YS251)

[Escher]

Would converting a normal supernatural attack into an area effect be a -1 refresh stunt, do you think?  Since it costs two shifts in a magic spell, and two shifts seems to be a pretty normal stunt effect, that seems like it might work.  Would it be one stunt to make both attacks have an area option or one each?

Anyway, I did rename the Incite Emotion, it's called Siren Song, as I said in the first post.

[sinker]

You could just take lasting emotion for your incite emotion (allowing it to be used to attack at Weapon:2) and then take a stunt or similar that makes her better at spray attacks. Just change the flavor if you want it to inflict physical stress instead of mental stress and there you go.

[Escher]

Um.  Maybe I just wasn't being very clear.

I want her to have two distinct abiliites: Siren's Song and Harpy's Screech.  One encompasses the beautiful, hypnotic version that Odysseus ran into; the other is the more modern idea of a sonic blast that shatters glass and harms everything around her.  I'm satisfied that what I have for Siren's Song works exactly how I want it to -- she can use Incite Emotion (trance) at range as a block, which mesmerizes a single target into not acting for one turn.

The other, the Harpy version, is the one I wasn't really happy with.  But let's just say forget the harpy concept:

If I wanted to build a monster with a supernatural ability to blast the area around him, how would I do that?  (For example, a flame elemental might be able to ignite his fiery body into a pyre that floods the room around him, or a hedgehog-like monster might be able to shoot a spray of quills into his environment.)  I don't see anything in the book that supports giving a creature an area attack other than a grenade or spell effect, but maybe I'm over-thinking and it should be just a custom upgrade to Breath Weapon, adding a -1 refresh cost to it.  Does that sound appropriate?

[Belial666]

First of all, for every -1 you take, you can add one more emotional effect to your Incite Emotion. Since mental damage is already way more effective than physical in most circumstances, adding a physical effect is not a problem balance-wise.

Secondly, as other people said, lasting emotion (+2 damage) and potent emotion (+4 damage) give you a damaging alternative.

Third, generally speaking, the ability to spray attacks costs -1 refresh - you can spread the damage or the attack among multiple targets. The ability to do area effects either costs -2 refresh or -1 but you have to reduce the effect strength by 2 shifts if you spread it over an area.

Fourth, there are stunts and powers that improve attacks. A -1 refresh power can give you +1 to all skill rolls in that skill or +2 stress in general. A -1 refresh stunt can give +1 to a specific type of rolls in the skill or +2 to a very narrow use of a skill, or +2 stress under limited circumstances. Finally, a further -1 refresh can increase range or negate all ranged penalties under specific circumstances.



With all the above options, I have yet to find a DnD special attack that cannot be translated into the system.

Example;


Siren's Song

[-2] Incite Madness plus Ranged - you can incite madness of various strengths/types, doing maneuvers and blocks at discipline+2 at range
[-3] Shatter plus Potent attack - you gain the extra effect to your incite emotion to perform physical sound attacks, with weapon 4
(technically, weapon 4 would also apply to your madness attacks as mental stress)
[-1] Area Effect - you can spread your attacks on an area; for every -2 to effect strength or weapon rating, you can spread it to one zone

[Drashna]

Breath Weapon [-2]
Description: You’re able to spit or otherwise throw some sort of self-generated projectile over a short distance.
Note: You’ll need to lock down this breath weapon to a single type of effect—e.g., acid, fire, lightning, etc.—when you take this ability.
Skills Affected: Weapons (this is treated as a thrown weapon).
Effects:
Breath Weapon. You can attack targets up to one zone away from you with your breath weapon. Roll Weapons; if you hit, you deal +2 physical stress (essentially, this is a thrown Weapon:2 that you can self-generate). As with any weapon, you might be able to use your breath to perform combat maneuvers if you can justify it, setting temporary aspects on the scene or on your opponent.

Breath Weapon would work the best.  As it reads, you could assume it hits all in the zone.  If you don't like that, you can just take "-2" to a roll, or add a "power up" to it at a "-1" refresh cost to hit an entire zone, instead.  that or use the "spray" attack option (YS326).  And feel free to change the skill used.  Performance, or the like, would be applicable.  Could do the same with the "incite emotion" ability.  Pretty much anything can be created by the powers in the book. Some just call for a bit of tweaking what's there already.

[noclue]

Escher, you're talking a Sonic Scream that does physical stress to an entire zone, right?

[Escher]

Escher, you're talking a Sonic Scream that does physical stress to an entire zone, right?

Right, of course.  Like all the glass shatters and everyone covers their ears and so on.  Breath Weapon seems much more apt to me, for this purpose, than some kind of Incite Emotions modification that makes it do physical damage; I just don't think linking it to the Weapons skill makes much sense.

[noclue]

Why not use Conviction?

[Drashna]

Conviction could work, but given that it is more "song like", performance seems more appropriate. (that's my opinion) But you could use whatever you think is appropriate. It *is* your NPC, after all.

[sinker]

The point I think you're missing Escher is that in DFRPG it doesn't matter whether you do physical stress with a breath weapon or with incite emotion or with a sword for that matter. If you can get one power to do everything you need (block, maneuver and attack for physical stress) then there's no reason to add another power. Even if it's two different things (one a soothing song, the other a sonic attack) that's just storytelling and flavor. It doesn't have to be reflected in the mechanics as two different things.

If on the other hand you have an issue with it mechanically (I.E. Incite emotion can't do what you need it to) then by all means keep looking.