Lasting Emotion and Feeding

[Blackblade]

Incite Emotion (with Lasting Emotion) allows you to use Emotion-touch to perform a maneuver at +2, a block, or a weapon:2 mental attack.  Emotional Vampire allows you to feed on a target, inciting mental stress, and gives you a +1 bonus if you feed on the same target for more than one round.  They rules say that you can both Incite Emotion and feed off of that emotion with one roll in a single exchange. 

Now for the questions.

A White Court Vamp with a Deceit of +5 and lasting emotion uses emotion-touch on a target.  He decides to go with a maneuver.  His target has a discipline of 3.  Assuming they both make a 0 on the roll, the maneuver will have 4 shifts of strength, placing the aspect "greedy" on the target.  At the same time, the WCV decides to follow through with the maneuver and feed, based off of the same roll.  How much stress would he deal?

I can see several possibilities:

4 stress: The attack uses the exact same value that the maneuver did. This can be broken down in to whether or not the victim gets a second defense roll against the attack itself.
2 stress: The attack uses the same roll, but doesn't get the +2 bonus that the maneuver grants.
1 stress: The target defends the 4 extra shifts as though they were a separate attack, and once again rolls a zero.
6 stress: As per the 4 stress option above, but the mental attack hits as a weapon:2 because the WCV has Lasting Emotion.
4 stress: As per the 2 stress option above, but the mental attack hits as a weapon:2 because the WCV has Lasting Emotion.

Which of these do you think would be the result?

[Drashna]

Been thinking about this for a while too. WCV feeding isn't exactly explained well.

Lasting inspiration makes it easier to control the victim. By dealing stress, you can take them out easier, and determine what they do (check conflicts). But with lasting inspiration, you're limited to maneuvers. But think about this way, if you apply a temp aspect, you can spend the fate point and compel them into doing specific actions also.

As for feeding: Both insite emotion and emotional vampire use the same roll if you have both.  If you get 4 shifts over the target's discipline role, you'd do 4 mental stress. If you have lasting inspiration, that would make it 6 stress.

Feeding Touch. Physical contact is where it’s at for a satisfying, long-term meal. When a victim is in the throes of an eligible emotion (usually easy for a White Court vampire using his Incite Emotion ability, page 172), you may draw some of his life force out of him to sustain you. This is done as a psychological attack with an appropriate skill (usually Deceit or Intimidation). If you have the Incite Emotion ability, inciting the emotion and feeding on it may be done as a single action, based on a single roll. On subsequent exchanges, if the emotion is still in place you may continue to feed, gaining a +1 on the roll.

That's the way I read it.  Even if you're doing a maneuver, you do stress.

[easl]

I'm not sure about it either, but here's one way of thinking about it (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm a noob about it too):  You choose either 'maneuver' or 'attack,' you don't get both at once.  So, in the first exchange the vamp doesn't get the +2 stress bonus from lasting emotion, because he/she is using a maneuver to establish the emotion and not technically attacking.  In subsequent exchanges he/she can use 'attack' instead and get the bonus.
 

[Nyarlathotep5150]

   The purpose of that rule is that you can only feed if the target is feeling the emotion you feed on.
   You take one action, Make one roll, and add the effects of each power separately.

    So in the example the white court vamp would have
      1) a maneuver (or block) at at 4 shifts (roll of 0+5 deceit, -3 resistance, +2 from incite greed)
             And
      2) a 2 shift mental attack (roll 0+5 deceit, -3 Resist). He can't tag the aspect yet cause both are happening simultaneously, and he doesn't get the +1 from feeding till subsequent rounds.

      This isn't much damage for a turn, but since he has lasting emotion, he could instead just make a single attack at 2 shifts plus weapon 2 (roll 0+5 deceit, -3 resist, +plus weapon 2 from lasting emotion). Then on subsequent rounds he would make the same attack at +1 (I think this is really what the option was meant for. To combine the 2 mental attacks).

[Motman]

I agree with Nyarlathotep.  Wow, I never expected to say that on a board!

   The purpose of that rule is that you can only feed if the target is feeling the emotion you feed on.
   You take one action, Make one roll, and add the effects of each power separately.

    So in the example the white court vamp would have
      1) a maneuver (or block) at at 4 shifts (roll of 0+5 deceit, -3 resistance, +2 from incite greed)
             And
      2) a 2 shift mental attack (roll 0+5 deceit, -3 Resist). He can't tag the aspect yet cause both are happening simultaneously, and he doesn't get the +1 from feeding till subsequent rounds.

      This isn't much damage for a turn, but since he has lasting emotion, he could instead just make a single attack at 2 shifts plus weapon 2 (roll 0+5 deceit, -3 resist, +plus weapon 2 from lasting emotion). Then on subsequent rounds he would make the same attack at +1 (I think this is really what the option was meant for. To combine the 2 mental attacks).

[Drashna]

Actually, that does sound very reasonable.  Still, makes the WCVs *very* powerful when it comes to controlling people!