Assessments & Declarations: Minor,Move, or Standard? ;-)

[zerogain]

So D&Dism aside, what kind of action do you all rule assessments and declarations to be? I have thought about free, but of late supplemental seems more right as you are dividing your focus. What do you all use? Free, supplemental or standard/attack?

[Papa Gruff]

Declarations are free actions, taken by the player not the PC. They take place outside of the RP and are limited by the players creativity and the game masters ruling.

Assessments are supplemental actions. The PC tries to asses a detail of the world. He can't be sure it is there, but if it is he may be able to exploit it.

Does this answer the question? I could go into more detail if need be.

[zerogain]

Thank you for the insight. However, that raises a new question in my mind. With an assessment being a supplemental action, does that impact the one role for exchange rule?

[MyNinjaH8sU]

How do you mean? If I read you correct, then it imposes the same -1 penalty to your main action that all supplementals do, as you are splitting your attention.

[zerogain]

Well, suppose in a heated fight the character is looking for any advantage possible,  he wishes to assess and attack.  Obviously that's two different skills (in most cases). Use the same rollbfor both actions? To me the limitation seems vaguely silly, but maybe I don't get the intended impact.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

My understanding is that you can't do an assessment in a heated battle. They require time and consideration. In the case that one was possible (in a long conflict, for example) I'd make it a primary action, as they figure out something of key importance.

An assessment is one of those times where the hero realizes from watching the villain that he favors his right leg, letting him on the aspect Old War Wound, so that later when they fight, the hero can take advantage of it.

[zerogain]

Doesn't that sort of invalidate the idea of making an assessment a supplemental action?  If you're doing extended actions there's no initiative, thus really no such thing as those actions being supplemental or free, just how much time they take on the chart.

A supplemental action is explicitly intended for the heat of an exchange, and what good is an assessment if it doesn't model the cool intelligence of a warrior who spots his foe's weakness in the midst of a battle?  Realistic or not, it is in popular culture, and it is something I think most players would expect to have modeled, so it seems to me that makes an assessment a standard/attack action...

[devonapple]

The duration required for an Assessment is up to the GM's adjudication, IIRC: they can take anything from a glance to hours/days of research depending on the desired information. You may not be able to justify Assessing an opponent's psychological Aspects within a combat exchange (that would take minutes, hours, weeks, or more to deduce from conversation), but certainly there are some Aspects which may be justifiably Assessed in the heat of conflict.

[sinker]

And hey, if you can't assess you can always guess at their aspects. It's a fair assumption that most goons (and goon equivalents) would have stereotypical aspects. And if you're wrong you'll get the point back or get an aspect to invoke.

[zerogain]

So I did some research and found out where I went wrong.  I was under the assumption that you could only make one roll per exchange, but that it apparently wrong.  So the assessment (and therefore declaration) is a simple, non-opposed action that can be supplemental, depending on intent, and thus inflicting a -1 penalty on the main action for that character that exchange.  Sorry for my bone-headedness on this.

[Papa Gruff]

So I did some research and found out where I went wrong.  I was under the assumption that you could only make one roll per exchange, but that it apparently wrong.  So the assessment (and therefore declaration) is a simple, non-opposed action that can be supplemental, depending on intent, and thus inflicting a -1 penalty on the main action for that character that exchange.  Sorry for my bone-headedness on this.

Have to point out that assessments aren't non-opposed. If you try to assess a aspect on a person the person may try to defend against it with an appropriate skill (most likely deceit or such).

If I misunderstood the meaning of non-opposed ... never mind. 

[zerogain]

You are, of course, free to run your game how you see fit, but the description of an assessment in the book opens by labeling them as simple actions, which are one-sided rolls. Declarations are defined as a type of assessment so they too are simple actions.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Declarations are not assessments. Where are you reading that? An assessment is something the character uncovers through research or reading people, where a declaration is a player's statement about the game world.

Regardless, assessments are very much contested rolls, at least part of the time. Go check out the use of Empathy as an Assessment skill using the Reading People trapping(YS129).

[JesterOC]

So how many declarations do you allow a player to make.  I had a case where the player wanted a large object to hurl at an opponent, first she tried for a window washing scaffold when that failed, she tried for a trash can, then a newspaper stand.

Does anyone limit the number declarations a player can attempt. I can understand that these are not PC actions and thus should not take time, but if you allow infinite attempts why roll at all? Just give it to the player.

JesterOC

[Papa Gruff]

So how many declarations do you allow a player to make.  I had a case where the player wanted a large object to hurl at an opponent, first she tried for a window washing scaffold when that failed, she tried for a trash can, then a newspaper stand.

Does anyone limit the number declarations a player can attempt. I can understand that these are not PC actions and thus should not take time, but if you allow infinite attempts why roll at all? Just give it to the player.

JesterOC

If a player keeps trying to abuse declarations in that way, I raise an eyebrow and say no. Declarations are not meant to offer benefits to the PC. They are meant as a tool for the player to participate in the creation of the game world. That said, they are designed to make the live of the GM easier and to strengthen the relation between the created world and everybody at the gaming table.

If a declaration reeks of the simple desire to make the life of the PC easier (aka boosting of rolls), then it will and should get very hard (witch is absolutely in line with the guidelines regarding declarations). Declarations should only ever be easy, if they lead to a fun moment, an interesting sort of action or something cool. In any other situation they should be exceedingly difficult for the player to pull of, because in this case declarations make it more difficult for the GM.

That said, I see the +2 benefit of the declaration as a reward for the player that had a cool/interesting/fun idea.