Author Topic: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future  (Read 2692 times)

Offline Wolfwood2

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Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« on: December 06, 2010, 04:46:06 PM »
Fortune telling is pretty classic magic.  Reading tea leaves, dealing out the tarot cards, poking through entrails....  I don't think it's supposed to be a 6th Law violation, as that seems to talk exclusively about actual time travel.  Though then the reference to the Gatekeeper also seems to imply that seeing the future is very difficult.

How should fortune telling be handled in game?  I'm talking beyond Cassandra's Tears, let's assume thaumaturgic ritual type magic to see the future.  The easy answer would be to say it can't be done in the Dresdenverse, but I don't think the books ever come out and say that.  And frankly, like I say above, that sort of divination is one of the cornerstones of magic in stories and mythology.  I'd hate to toss it out or say it's only the province of warlocks.

On the other hand, obviously any type of future prediction is tough in an RPG.  Has anyone handled it in their games?  If so, how?

Offline MijRai

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2010, 05:10:55 PM »
I haven't done it, but the easiest way to do it in my opinion is summon something like a Loa from Death Masks. They can tell you plenty if you pay them right.

Otherwise, maybe a 20-40 complexity Divination ritual to see weeks or months ahead.
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Offline danthehut

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 06:29:54 PM »
I think the best way to use divination in any RPG is to make the result vague enough and with enough hidden meaning that it's easy to work into your game.. or even just add a small enough lead to the mystery/plot to not give everything away.

Offline devonapple

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 06:43:55 PM »
I wonder if Declarations would be a good factor in divination situations. Perhaps if we thought of the divination as being a vague outline, and then leave it up to the player who made the divination to use the Lore skill to "interpret" (i.e. to flesh out or make specific) how the divination might apply to any critical moments they think to bring it up. The GM could still assess a difficulty to the Lore check based on how cool, appropriate, relevant and/or disruptive such a Declaration could be.
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Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 03:27:52 PM »
It's strictly plot device territory in my game; I have a blind ghoul seeress who is trained in divination... and sometimes finds herself compelled to speak/write down cryptic prophecies.  For example,
(click to show/hide)
 
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Offline Wolfwood2

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 03:29:26 PM »
It's strictly plot device territory in my game; I have a blind ghoul seeress who is trained in divination... and sometimes finds herself compelled to speak/write down cryptic prophecies.  For example,
(click to show/hide)
 

So what would happen if a PC with Thaumaturgy said, "I want to do a ritual where I lay out tarot cards and get some idea of what sort of horrors lurk in my immediate future."?

Offline bibliophile20

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 03:37:03 PM »
Ah.  Tarot cards are easier than just giving them a straight answer.  Remember that the symbolism of the cards lend themselves to various interpretations, and a high Lore skill will only take you so far (for another comparison, tarot cards are not precision instruments, so don't expect to get .01 minute of arc accuracy out of them).  To give an example, it is possible to interpret the Fool, The Wheel of Fortune, The Tower and The Traitor for the plots of either Turn Coat or Changes.  And if they're particularly looking for "horrors"... that, my friend, is permission
Tips for the Evil Henchman:
#12. If the seemingly helpless person you have just cornered is confident and unafraid despite being outnumbered and surrounded, you have encountered a Hero in disguise. Run while you still can.

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Offline Oriande

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 04:10:39 PM »
Go for it! My suggestion is that you pick up a set of Tarot cards, rune stone tiles or whatever and let the player use them. One of my players (the owner of the local magic shop) has been doing this since the beginning of our campaign and it has worked out well -- really added to the game.
 Over time, certain cards have come to represent each of the other party members. Typical conversations have included variations of "Didn't I tell you that..." and "I don't believe in your heathen nonsence." 
Last week's session ended with her saying, " I knew it! The cards said I was going to be betrayed." right after her unscrupulous ex tried to sell her to a creature of the Nevernever. ;)
and No, I did not change the storyline to accomodate her reading.

Offline Belial666

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Re: Fortune Telling and Seeing the Future
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 08:02:44 PM »
OK, let's address the mechanics of the matter, not what you tell the PCs;


Future Predictions: simply use the shifts of the ritual for a Scholarship or Lore or other Knowledge-based skill roll to predict future events. You aren't predicting the exact events here - the future is always in motion - but you are using the skill roll to make an "educated guess" as to how the future will pan out. For example, with resources rolls of +5, the best financial advisors in the world predict the economic movements of the market. With a magical resources roll of +20, which is orders of magnitude higher since the progression is nonlinear, you'd make such an accurate "educated guess" to be actually predicting the future of the economy. Similarly, Scholarship and Contacts rolls of +4 to +5 would allow a world-class politician or businessman to find out information via research or his allies and interpret it to expect imminent political events. With such rolls in the +20 region, your magically enhanced "educated guess" is accurate enough to actually predict far-off events. Contacts of +20 alone could allow you to contact, instead of a human information broker, a mighty supernatural spirit that lives in the future or a greater demon that knows what is being planned worldwide.

Finding Information: a +5 investigation or scholarship or lore roll is average for a world-class human. A +11 roll is the best possible roll for a world-class human that is also helped along by Fate. A ritual giving you a +20 roll is far more powerful than that. Not only you are going to find orders of magnitude more info on the subject than the best effort of the best humans in the world, you are going to find it in the one scene it takes to cast the ritual, not after weeks or even months of research on a subject.

Foresight: the above methods, while giving really powerful results already, are not definite predictions. Foresight is delving into chronomancy to apply chronomancy-related aspects for a specific situation. With a 4-shift chronomancy maneuver, you can apply a sticky aspect to yourself like "Deja Vu" or "I know what happens now". This aspect represents a limited knowledge of the actual future - a real prophesy you forced via chronomancy. You can use this knowledge once to boost any action related to said prophesy by +2 (tagging the aspect) but since that changes the future, you'll keep the knowledge but using it more is harder and harder (you must pay fate points to invoke it again). Aspects like that can be compelled, such as in trying to avert the event you inadvertedly cause it instead, or prophesy misinterpretation in other ways. To gain deeper insight of the future, just add more aspects with a bigger spell or multiple spells - a big spell reflects deeper knowledge such as a major prophesy you gain via major chronomancy once while multiple spells reflect a smaller but constant ability to peer into the future.

Major Prophesies: this is the Divination equivalent of pulling meteors out of the sky or killing entire nations with Disruption magic. Consider how much knowledge, how much information and how much foresight a Divination with thousands of shifts can give. Don't mess with those.

Swimming against the currents of time: Bad idea. But possible. Simply generate enough shifts to take yourself out without concession for alteration of your own timeline (since you cannot naturally conceed that your timeline is altered - it's a forced effect) and then add shifts for duration for how far ahead or behind you want to travel. How you use the time-travel is up to you. I'd suggest running real fast; the Gatekeeper is badass.