Red vs Black

[Madmacabre]

Hello all!

What is the difference between the catch of Black and Red court vampires?

For black its said that its pretty much Stokers' traditional vulnerabilities (sun, stake, garlic, holy stuff).

For red, its said its such things as: sun, holy stuff...

Both are not being very clear and definitive. In addition, they look quite the same...


How do you interprete those catch in your game?

[Belial666]

For the Blacks, the catch is both more easily available  and stronger. Sunlight burns them to ash and a makeshift cross can blast them aside.

For the Reds, the catch is narrower and weaker. Sunlight is only like a physical blow and a cross wielded by a person with belief might not be enough to repel them.

[sinker]

Expanding on what Belial said, there are also parts of the black catch that doesn't apply at all to the reds I.E. Stakes, garlic, running water, having to sleep in your home earth (I know it's a stoker thing but I don't know if it applies), etc.

[zerogain]

Noting the difference in how sunlight affects the reds vs. the black, I think that in both cases it's an elemental effect/attack against each species, but the severity of the attack (and it's effective Weapon rating) would be higher against a black court than it would against a red court.  Have a look at fire in the books (not quite sure where, don't have mine with me at the moment) and how you'd deal with it if your character were in a burning room or building, then adapt it to sunlight.

Both Bianca (book 1) and Kelly Hamilton (book 3) were hit by sunlight, you can extrapolate how deadly it is to the Reds from that.

I can't think of any time where Mavra or any of her various brood are ever exposed to sunlight, though, so I don't have any concrete examples.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

Noting the difference in how sunlight affects the reds vs. the black, I think that in both cases it's an elemental effect/attack against each species, but the severity of the attack (and it's effective Weapon rating) would be higher against a black court than it would against a red court.  Have a look at fire in the books (not quite sure where, don't have mine with me at the moment) and how you'd deal with it if your character were in a burning room or building, then adapt it to sunlight.

Both Bianca (book 1) and Kelly Hamilton (book 3) were hit by sunlight, you can extrapolate how deadly it is to the Reds from that.

I can't think of any time where Mavra or any of her various brood are ever exposed to sunlight, though, so I don't have any concrete examples.

   I wouldn't bother making it different attack levels for each. Its too much work to keep track of And since the Black Court have Supernatural toughness, and the Reds only have inhuman, anything that satisfies the blacks catch is going to be noticeably more inconvenient than it would be for a Red.
    I'd just make Zones of Sunlight act as thresholds for Vampires. Then it would make an attack on the vampire every turn he's in it. Also, I'd say that both are effected by running water. Running water creates a threshold that attacks all magic and spiritual entities in it.

   But yes. The difference is, that the Reds are only effected by what it specifically says (and not even by holy symbols unless they are wielded by someone who has faith in it.), as where the Black Court have ALL the traditional vampire weaknesses (Crosses, Garlic, maybe even silver).

[Mal_Luck]

Red's also have the "blood reservoir" in their belly. Sunlight seems to be able to kill either (hence full body suits for the Ebs), but older vampires are able to go out in sunlight either with their Flesh Mask (Older Reds) or just because they can (Dracula). Mechanically, this might be an upgrade for Flesh Mask or lowering the Catch for the Black Court.

[zerogain]

I'd call it an upgrade, they're still vulnerable to it, but they have an out.  If you were to have ripped off Duchess Ortega's flesh mask she'd have cooked just as readily as Kelly Hamilton, but as long as it was in place...

[ralexs1991]

I'd call it an upgrade, they're still vulnerable to it, but they have an out.  If you were to have ripped off Duchess Ortega's flesh mask she'd have cooked just as readily as Kelly Hamilton, but as long as it was in place...

"new from banana boat flesh mask sun screen spf 2000000"