Beta readers?

[KWPech]

So how do you all (those that have used them) handle beta readers?
How do you find reliable(trustable) people? Just ask around and take chance? Or ask around those you know?

I'm looking for tips and pointers. I have no idea how to approah this, so I figured I start here by asking those who know.
I'm within a week or so of needing to get chunks of my piece looked over and commented on for fixes and feedback.

[Starbeam]

You can join a writer's group, or try to put one together.  You can ask on forums for volunteers.  I'm not at the point where I'm even considering betas; all I have so far is one alpha reader--my fiance.  When I get to more polished draft, then I'll start looking for betas.  I'll probably ask people I know that I think can spare the extra time and I think would be good for different types of things--grammar/spelling, continuity, flow, timeline, etc.

[Apocrypha]

I'll probably ask people I know that I think can spare the extra time and I think would be good for different types of things--grammar/spelling, continuity, flow, timeline, etc.

You still have to be careful who you ask when it is someone you know personally.  I tried this once and a couple of them basically told me how everything I wrote was great when even I knew it needed more work.  They seemed more inclined to stroke my ego then question anything.  I probably could have handed them a grocery list and have them tell me it was better than Shakespeare. 

[Blaze]

There are some people on the boards who will beta read for you, and make good suggestions. 

[Starbeam]

You still have to be careful who you ask when it is someone you know personally.  I tried this once and a couple of them basically told me how everything I wrote was great when even I knew it needed more work.  They seemed more inclined to stroke my ego then question anything.  I probably could have handed them a grocery list and have them tell me it was better than Shakespeare. 

I wouldn't even consider asking anyone who might even have the remotest chance of doing that.  Which means no one related to me. When I say people I know, I mean mostly some of the friends I made in college who were in some of my writing classes, and other people I know who are similar.  The ones who don't need to be lead by the nose to learn to critique.

[KWPech]

Ok, next question.... Do you send out your first drafts to have them go over the same time your going through and doing your own clean up edits, or do you wait and send out the second, cleaner draft?

[Blaze]

Depends on what you want them to beta for.  If you are worried about a plot element escaping, then bring them along in drips and drabs.  If you are looking for editors who will deal with typos, translations and the odd missing word?  Send a cleaner copy.

Nothing worse that foisting your own sloppy first draft on your free help if you won't allow tem to call you on plot elements.

[Snowleopard]

You have to be willing to listen to what they have to say and then kinda evaluate it
in regards to your writing.  I would think some comments have to do with whether a person
likes your style or not whilst other, more important ones, can point out plot holes or inconsistencies.
But you have to be able to listen and take criticism.

[Blaze]

A good editor/beta reader will focus on the writers style and make suggestions that do not change that style but hone it.

[JMThomas]

I usually ask close friends whom I usually trade books with.  I know they have a similar aesthetic, are essentially my target audience, and I email the current draft to them with instructions to take a hatchet to it if necessary.  If you're very specific with what you want, that helps.  I have one friend that I tell to ignore the spelling and grammatical mistakes, and to alert me to odd jumps in plot where they feel jerked around too much, to discrepancies in minute details (names, places, colors, etc), and to overall feeling:  Did this answer your questions about x?  Was that how you expected the situation to resolve?  Did anything seem out of character with what you've read so far? Etc.

I have another friend who is my grammar man.  He corrects spelling and flags jumpy and choppy language.

[Serack]

I think there is a link somewhere in this forum to the story of a woman who's beta reader had been plagiarizing other peoples works and winning awards with them.  She didn't realize this was going on until she saw him publish something that was pretty much a straight ripoff of something he was betaing for her.  Fortunately for Jim everyone that is betaing for him has the fear of Shannon.

(well, actually they are all great people, that really respect a great and really nice writer, but I hear Shannon also threatens to do something nasty if they were to disclose anything)

[Snowleopard]

I think there is a link somewhere in this forum to the story of a woman who's beta reader had been plagiarizing other peoples works and winning awards with them.  She didn't realize this was going on until she saw him publish something that was pretty much a straight ripoff of something he was betaing for her.  Fortunately for Jim everyone that is betaing for him has the fear of Shannon.

That sucks.  As an artist, the one thing I deeply believe in is that you do your OWN work.  Yeah, we inspire each other but out and out right theft.  NO.  I hope someone handed that guy his tuchis on a platter.