Blood speakers

[IIIMarconeIII]

I was wondering of anyone has put any thought into use the Canim Magic style in a DFRPG ?

you know:

Acid clouds.
Summon giant acid Octopus
Puke Stomach, and lungs ... and small intestines
Red Lighting attack

Would/Could it work ?

[Becq]

I think most of what makes Canim magic different just amounts to special effects and a stronger focus on sacrifice.  So yes, I think it's probably doable.  You just need to come up with a sensible set of 'elements' in line with the magic style.

[Selrach]

Simple mechanic already in place you can inflict comsequences on yourself and folks to help power spells.  Only real difference is you might need an extra Ability to let you do the same for evocation.

[devonapple]

Only real difference is you might need an extra Ability to let you do the same for evocation.

I propose that those rules already exist in the game, from a certain point of view, in the form of the Backlash rules. You can always bite off a bit more Shifts than you can chew, and plan ahead of time on taking Consequences to absorb the Backlash. And you get to have your spell work! Any flaws in this plan?

[sinker]

I've got a caster who does that as her focus. The whole character concept is that she's a holy champion that takes damage stigmata style as she casts. Most of my rotes have more power than I can safely channel and I take the rest as backlash.

[Ren]

When I saw the title "Blood-speakers" I thought it was a reference to the Legend of the Five Rings setting and the Black Magic users who use blood to increase the effects of their magic (Their blood or others).

[Ryan_Singer]

How about this:

-4 Path of Blood

Must: the character must have a high concept that mentions the word bloodspeaker

Path of Blood is very similar to sponsored magic. It allows evocation and thaumaturgy, but only within the outsider / acid milieu.  Instead of being able to borrow fate points for spellcasting, Path of Blood allows storing fate points generated from creating physical consequences and gathering blood. Path of Blood is only useable when the blood stores are available, so if the character is out of stored fate points, he must inflict consequences on himself to cast spells.

So, for example, a Maker donates blood to your Bloodspeaker in order to avenge his brother. You inflict a Minor and a Moderate Consequence on him and get 3 fate points in your blood pool. (6 shifts of consequences / 2). These can be used to invoke aspects to improve your spellcasting. When your blood pool is empty, you have to fill it to be able to cast.

[Becq]

Being able to inflict consequences in advance seems pretty powerful.  All you would have to do is kill a few people and harvest 10 Fate from each, and before you know it the GM runs out of Fate markers because they're all sitting in your pile.

I think that maybe I'd change it up a bit for balance:

1) For each two points of consequence you or another participant sacrifices as part of a ritual to store blood power, you create one Blood point counter.  These should be similar to but distinguishable from Fate points.
2) You may only have as many Blood points as your rating in Lore; any additional Blood points (that cannot be claimed by a participant) created by the ritual are lost.
3) Refinement specializations can be used to add to your Lore for purposes of the limit on Blood points (instead of granting one of the normal bonuses).
4) You may spend Blood points when casting to gain a +1 (per Blood point) to one aspect of the casting (power or control).  This bonus lasts for one spell only, and stacks with any bonuses for specializations or focuses you have.

This makes it weaker (in terms of efficiency) than normal sacrifice in that you are only getting half of the bonus you'd get from a 'fresh' victim, but gives you more flexibility to save the bonus for later (up to a Lore-based limit) and to use the bonus for Evocation (including reducing the mental stress for casting).

I think I'd class this as at least a -5 refresh, though.

[Tbora]

Being able to inflict consequences in advance seems pretty powerful.  All you would have to do is kill a few people and harvest 10 Fate from each, and before you know it the GM runs out of Fate markers because they're all sitting in your pile.

I think that maybe I'd change it up a bit for balance:

1) For each two points of consequence you or another participant sacrifices as part of a ritual to store blood power, you create one Blood point counter.  These should be similar to but distinguishable from Fate points.
2) You may only have as many Blood points as your rating in Lore; any additional Blood points (that cannot be claimed by a participant) created by the ritual are lost.
3) Refinement specializations can be used to add to your Lore for purposes of the limit on Blood points (instead of granting one of the normal bonuses).
4) You may spend Blood points when casting to gain a +1 (per Blood point) to one aspect of the casting (power or control).  This bonus lasts for one spell only, and stacks with any bonuses for specializations or focuses you have.

This makes it weaker (in terms of efficiency) than normal sacrifice in that you are only getting half of the bonus you'd get from a 'fresh' victim, but gives you more flexibility to save the bonus for later (up to a Lore-based limit) and to use the bonus for Evocation (including reducing the mental stress for casting).

I think I'd class this as at least a -5 refresh, though.

But this, as is, does not really accurately represent the effectiveness of the Blood Speakers.

With a small flick of blood that Bloodspeaker Master dude in First Lords Fury was capable of making people vomit out there internal organs.

Personally I would take the above power, make it worth -6, and call it good.

[Ryan_Singer]

Being able to inflict consequences in advance seems pretty powerful.  All you would have to do is kill a few people and harvest 10 Fate from each, and before you know it the GM runs out of Fate markers because they're all sitting in your pile.

Easy for you to say. They have to be willing or helpless, and you have to be willing to kill them.

[Becq]

Well, if you take the books as an example, I believe there were a number of occasions where large groups of victims were bled.  How many Fate points do you want to hand out when that happens?  Alternatively, a caster could simply give himself a minor consequence roughly every hour.  Which means that even if he kept to business hours when doing so, he'd be getting 40 free Fate per week (over 100 per week if he 'worked' overtime and weekends).  Of course, when I say 'work' he would, of course, have about 55 minutes of every hour free to do whatever else he felt worth doing.

Oh, and if he had Endurance 5, then the numbers double, since he'd have two minor consequences to play with.  And if he happened to have a Recovery power, then it becomes even worse.  Even with very conservative rulings limiting each 'scene' to an hour, a character with Endurance 5 and Inhuman Recovery could heal back the two minors plus the 'instant' minor, plus a moderate every hour, for 5 Fate per hour and around 500 or so per week.  More, actually, since he can get away with sleeping only every other night.  Call it 700 per week.

How long would it take to store up enough to explode the planet?  How many zones does a planet have, anyway?  Ok, let's think smaller.  How about wasting a city?

[Tbora]

Well, if you take the books as an example, I believe there were a number of occasions where large groups of victims were bled.  How many Fate points do you want to hand out when that happens?  Alternatively, a caster could simply give himself a minor consequence roughly every hour.  Which means that even if he kept to business hours when doing so, he'd be getting 40 free Fate per week (over 100 per week if he 'worked' overtime and weekends).  Of course, when I say 'work' he would, of course, have about 55 minutes of every hour free to do whatever else he felt worth doing.

Oh, and if he had Endurance 5, then the numbers double, since he'd have two minor consequences to play with.  And if he happened to have a Recovery power, then it becomes even worse.  Even with very conservative rulings limiting each 'scene' to an hour, a character with Endurance 5 and Inhuman Recovery could heal back the two minors plus the 'instant' minor, plus a moderate every hour, for 5 Fate per hour and around 500 or so per week.  More, actually, since he can get away with sleeping only every other night.  Call it 700 per week.

How long would it take to store up enough to explode the planet?  How many zones does a planet have, anyway?  Ok, let's think smaller.  How about wasting a city?

What you are talking about is a game with either no GM or even worse, a very incompetent one to allow what your saying (in regards to city destroying effects).

As is, its not broken and its fine so long as you have a decent GM.

A handful of Bloodspeakers per the Codex could destroy a city, but an individual couldn't.

That makes this an accurate representation imo.

[Becq]

Player: "Ok, so as a Blood Speaker I can do a ritual to turn a minor consequence into a Fate point, right?"
GM: "Sure, but you'll have that consequence until it heals, which is about a scene or an hour."
Player: "Ok, well, I don't have anything pressing until the meeting with Mab the day after tomorrow.  So I'll spend that time doing a ritual every hour.  If I sleep 6 hours a night that will get me ... about 36 Fate points, which might come in handy!"
GM: "Don't be ridiculous, you can't farm yourself for Fate points."
Player: "Why not?"
GM: "Because it just doesn't work that way."
Player: "So I can't convert minors into Fate?"
GM: "Yes, you can."
Player: "Ok, so how many can I get in the next 48 hours?"

As a decent GM, how do you deal with this in a DFRPG game?  And how do you deal with the real munchkin who goes with the End 5 and Supernatural Recovery and claims about 300 for the two days, instead?  My response is to set up clear limits in advance to try to avoid the issue to begin with, but that apparently unreasonable...

[Ryan_Singer]

Player: "Ok, so as a Blood Speaker I can do a ritual to turn a minor consequence into a Fate point, right?"
GM: "Sure, but you'll have that consequence until it heals, which is about a scene or an hour."
Player: "Ok, well, I don't have anything pressing until the meeting with Mab the day after tomorrow.  So I'll spend that time doing a ritual every hour.  If I sleep 6 hours a night that will get me ... about 36 Fate points, which might come in handy!"
GM: "Don't be ridiculous, you can't farm yourself for Fate points."
Player: "Why not?"
GM: "Because it just doesn't work that way."
Player: "So I can't convert minors into Fate?"
GM: "Yes, you can."
Player: "Ok, so how many can I get in the next 48 hours?"

As a decent GM, how do you deal with this in a DFRPG game?  And how do you deal with the real munchkin who goes with the End 5 and Supernatural Recovery and claims about 300 for the two days, instead?  My response is to set up clear limits in advance to try to avoid the issue to begin with, but that apparently unreasonable...

How about the blood is only good while the consequence exists. Now you can sacrifice a pack to kill a city, but you can't farm your own minors.

[Becq]

How about the blood is only good while the consequence exists. Now you can sacrifice a pack to kill a city, but you can't farm your own minors.

Sounds perfectly acceptable balance-wise, though it does largely make the ability to pre-sacrifice moot.