Item of Power Question

[HumAnnoyd]

So I am making a Gunslinger who was cursed by a Shaman in the Old West to be an Immortal Champion of the Land.  He will pretty much be a normal mortal with Supernatural Recovery.  To give him a little offensive power I was toying with the idea of him possessing a Colt Peacemaker (yes I watch Supernatural) that had the All Creatures Are Equal Before God the Great Spirit.

 My question is what would this cost?  I think that power would be a 2 point power based on everything else the Swords of the Cross provide but how much should the One Time Discount be?  It seems like it should be -1 since the weapon is reasonably concealable.  But it does making a loud noise when used drawing attention as opposed to a sword which can be used relatively quietly.  Also you can only use it 6 times before reloading.  So does that make the discount -1 or -2? If -2 I am planning on adding a Sensory Power or something along those lines to help the character detect his foes.  So what do you guys think?

[Tbora]

The value of All Things Are Equal... has been discussed here multiple times, and the general consensus is that its a -3 refresh power quite easily.

As a gun is relatively small (and therefore easy to conceal) that is worth +1

I'd say go with Supernatural Sense: Those who would harm the Land (He can sense evil beings with the intent to do harm, how it manifests is how I imagine is an aura he can see and track.) This would be -1 refresh

All total that is a -3 item of power, which is not bad, if you pick a decent catch for your recovery power like Steel or Iron (+3 catch to represent the desecration of the Land with it being torn of the earth violently, stealing from it) then you can have either Supernatural Recovery -1 or Mythic at -3.

All together for the whole character that is -6 refresh, which even in a Chest Deep game is pretty good leaving you two refresh, or in a Submerged one you have 4 fate points at the start of every session.

[HumAnnoyd]

That is quite a bit more than I was expecting.  Bummer. 

The concealability isn't mitigated by the fact that you can't conceal its use?  Unless you pistol whipped someone I guess but then it wouldn't meet the Catch of anything except for Iron maybe.  Does having to reload it after 6 uses provide any quantifiable discount? Or is that offset by the fact that it is a ranged weapon?

I do like that Supernatural Sense though.  I might just use that.
 

[WillH]

Personally I treat IOP concealment as whether or not the you can conceal the fact that the item is the source of the power, not whether or not the physical object is concealable. I would give a gun a +2 discount myself. The six shot limitation just falls under the "it is what it is" part of IOP.

[Tbora]

That is quite a bit more than I was expecting.  Bummer.  

The concealability isn't mitigated by the fact that you can't conceal its use?  Unless you pistol whipped someone I guess but then it wouldn't meet the Catch of anything except for Iron maybe.  Does having to reload it after 6 uses provide any quantifiable discount? Or is that offset by the fact that it is a ranged weapon?

I do like that Supernatural Sense though.  I might just use that.
 

Nope, it being small is what sets the catch, not the fact it draws attention to itself once used.

The reload don't matter for the discount sorry, unless you can convince your GM to house rule, but I would not hold my breath on that.

And if it has All Things Are Equal, then anything you were to physically hit with the gun (not just shoot) its catch would be fulfilled.

[HumAnnoyd]

Personally I treat IOP concealment as whether or not the you can conceal the fact that the item is the source of the power, not whether or not the physical object is concealable. I would give a gun a +2 discount myself. The six shot limitation just falls under the "it is what it is" part of IOP.

This was kind of what I was thinking.  And the 6 shots makes sense too.  Wonder how much Refresh it would add to have unlimited ammo?  But, no.  I like the tension of reloading it as a horde of face ripping monsters charge down on him.  Sounds like good fun to me.    

Nope, it being small is what sets the catch, not the fact it draws attention to itself once used.

The text seems a bit nebulous to me.  But I can see how this interpretation would be the most common.  I just wonder at the logic of it when applied in this situation.  A Colt Peacemaker is a large revolver with a 7½" barrel (though later models had as small as 4¾").  It could not be concealed as easily as say a Walther PPK carried by James Bond.  But where would the cut off be? 

[WillH]

Nope, it being small is what sets the catch, not the fact it draws attention to itself once used.

That is open to interpretation.

[Becq]

There aren't any hard and fast rules for concealment, and no set modifiers based on size.  I know that some of the pistols of the era were quite large, though, and relatively unconcealable.  My suggestion is to decide for yourself whether or not it's concealable, and set that on your character sheet.  A good way to do this might be to include words to the effect in the aspect you assign to the IoP.  For example, you might decide to go with "I fight for the land with a Big Damn Gun!"  You've now defined your weapon as a Big Damn Gun, and if you were to try to conceal it, your GM could invoke your aspect as a bonus to notice the weapon.  This would also justify the +2 One-time bonus, since you've defined the weapon as "reasonably obvious and easy to detect".

Just keep in mind that you'll have to live with this decision, and won't be able to argue that "it's only a pistol, I should be able to hide it easily under this trenchcoat!"  No, it's still a Big Damn Gun and will always leave a noticeable bulge -- and the guards will not think you're happy to see them.

As to the ammo question, ammo is kind of hand-waved in Fate, too.  Basically, it's treated as a compel against the weapon (the "It is what it is" part of the IoP), assuming it's handled similarly to other Fate games.  So the GM will say "I'm pretty sure you've used up your ammo by now" and hand you a Fate chip -- basically you are being compeled to fail your attempt to shoot, and instead spend the exchange reloading your weapon.  Since this is a compel, you can choose to accept the Fate and go with it ... or you can spend Fate to refuse the compel -- perhaps the last exchange included a pause in the gunfire long enough for you to duck behind a wall and slap some bullets into your cylinder...

[HumAnnoyd]

"I fight for the land with a Big Damn Gun!"

That is a good idea and I will swipe it for sure.  It is a compromise that will work for both me as a player and my GM I think.

As to the ammo question, ammo is kind of hand-waved in Fate, too.  Basically, it's treated as a compel against the weapon (the "It is what it is" part of the IoP), assuming it's handled similarly to other Fate games.  So the GM will say "I'm pretty sure you've used up your ammo by now" and hand you a Fate chip -- basically you are being compelled to fail your attempt to shoot, and instead spend the exchange reloading your weapon.  Since this is a compel, you can choose to accept the Fate and go with it ... or you can spend Fate to refuse the compel -- perhaps the last exchange included a pause in the gunfire long enough for you to duck behind a wall and slap some bullets into your cylinder...

Yeah that is kinda what I thought too.  It seems like it might be fun too. 

"I may have shot five bullets or I may have shot six bullets.  The question you gotta ask youself is do you feel lucky...Puck?"

[MyNinjaH8sU]

I kinda think it's concealable or not as you wish, but to be honest, the penalties might outweigh the benefits in getting that extra point of refresh. Do you really want to rely on a gun that isn't concealable for your powers?

What happens when you have to go into a public area? You know, like in a city...

[HumAnnoyd]

I kinda think it's concealable or not as you wish, but to be honest, the penalties might outweigh the benefits in getting that extra point of refresh. Do you really want to rely on a gun that isn't concealable for your powers?

What happens when you have to go into a public area? You know, like in a city...

Very good point.  The character is a modern Bounty Hunter now who goes after regular criminals to pay the bills but tracks down monsters as well.  I am not sure that he would carry it around with him ALL the time in any case.  And I expect a good GM to make me pay for not having it on me.  But I take your point.  I will have to think on it a bit before I truly make up my mind.  It would be nice to carry it at all times (with the proper conceal/carry license of course).  I would have to drop the Supernatural Sense power I was thinking of but I am OK with that.

[sjksprocket]

you kinda hit on a point I was thinking of on your last point. Not all cities have concealment permits. some place have it where you have to have it in the open all the time, which carries all sorts of problems. Like people seeing it if it is revealed or the cop finding it if it's concealed and not supposed to be. You might want to find out the gun carrying laws of the city your playing in. And some cities I think might have laws where you can't carry guns at all. I'm thinking NY city has something like that, but am not completely sure, and can't remember where I heard it now.

[Wolfwood2]

This was kind of what I was thinking.  And the 6 shots makes sense too.  Wonder how much Refresh it would add to have unlimited ammo?  But, no.  I like the tension of reloading it as a horde of face ripping monsters charge down on him.  Sounds like good fun to me. 

Remember that combat exchanges are fairly abstract in time and can potentially be minutes long.  One attack doesn't necessarily mean one shot, anymore than it means one swing of the sword.

A combat exchange might involve firing six times, fumbling in your pocket for more ammo, and firing another couple of times, all in a single Guns roll.  Or it could be you waving the Winchester around, trying to draw a bead, failing to get a clean shot, and not firing at all in the context of a failed Guns roll.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Remember that combat exchanges are fairly abstract in time and can potentially be minutes long.  One attack doesn't necessarily mean one shot, anymore than it means one swing of the sword.

A combat exchange might involve firing six times, fumbling in your pocket for more ammo, and firing another couple of times, all in a single Guns roll.  Or it could be you waving the Winchester around, trying to draw a bead, failing to get a clean shot, and not firing at all in the context of a failed Guns roll.

QFT. I wouldn't worry too much about ammo for anything smaller than a Rocket Launcher. Then it might be relevant.

Actually, I'll tell you exactly when you run out of ammo: when the DM passes you a fate point and compels your aspect. 

[HumAnnoyd]

QFT. I wouldn't worry too much about ammo for anything smaller than a Rocket Launcher. Then it might be relevant.

Actually, I'll tell you exactly when you run out of ammo: when the DM passes you a fate point and compels your aspect. 

Right.  Got it.  Don't worry about ammo unless Fate points are involved.