Why is the white court catch worth +0?

[Amelia Crane]

The catch for the White Court is listed in the template as being worth +0.  However, that doesn't really jive with the descriptions of the value of catches.  If I were pricing True Love as a catch, it would be something that a rare class of people has access to [+1], and requiring perhaps some research to know about [+1].  You do not need to know the specific WCV personally to figure out the weakness.  Nor is true love possessed by fewer than 5 people in the world - I'd guess the same number of people have found true love as there are wizards (I'm guessing several thousand, but that still makes true love one in a million.)

[crusher_bob]

I'd guess it's +0 in the knowledge category because, normally, no one outside of the white court actually knows what it is.  So, for example, random wizards have no idea what the catch of WCV's actually are.

A defense for the +0 of the availability of the catch it that it's almost impossible to test that you have the right thing before you bring it into battle.  It's pretty easy to tell you have magic, or a sword of the cross, or whatever, but there's hardly a luvmeter that you can wave around and find people with.

[Amelia Crane]

But the catch IS researchable.  For one, there's an entire class of people that know about it (if you can get them to tell you).  For another, it's the positive emotion counterpart of their hunger, so it's guessable.  It never said that wizards have to know the catch for it to be known.  Just because most wizards don't interact much with the white court and have no reason to know thier weakness, doesn't mean it can't be found out.

Also, nothing in the description of the catch says it has to be testable.  But even then, as soon as you have a friendly/captive white court vampire, you have an instant luvtest.  Does this scarf have love on it?  (Touch it to WCV) *no sizzle* no, it does not.  Furthermore, it's not like a normal person is going to be able to know the difference between a real wizard and someone who claims to be able to do magic.  They would have the same problem testing their secret weapon.

[Kaldra]

while we as a whole would like to believe that we truly do love others, real honest to god true love is still quite rare. and thats one reason that its zero. the other is, to me at least, the fact that WCV's as a whole have several different catches that only apply so some of them thus figuring out what you need to fullfill becomes even harder.

[Tsunami]

Just how would you go about and acquire true Love to be used against a WCV?
It's not something you can get acces to if you don't already have it. It's not possible to go and get true love to satisfy the catch.

I think that is the most significant reason for the catch to be +0.
If you don't have it... you won't be able to get it, at least not on any kind of plan-able schedule.

[Amelia Crane]

Actually, there have been several items mentioned that were symbolic enough of true love to qualify as the weakness of a WCV (a ring and a scarf, IIRC).  Plus hair is apparently capable of causing damage, so maybe that could be cut off to be transferred.  So saying it's unattainable if you don't already have it is just plain wrong.

And it may be rare.  But it's not as rare as what the book describes as a +0 catch.
+2 Anyone could reasonably get it
+1 A RARE class of people possess it (I estimate that as many people have true love as true magic.)
+0 Only one or two people in the world have it

I think there might be more than one couple truly in love in the dresdenverse.   Harry and Susan, Thomas and Justine.  Are you all claiming that there are no people truly in love outside Chicago?  Because I've already named twice the number of people with true love than mentioned as allowable for a +0.

[Nyarlathotep5150]

Plus hair is apparently capable of causing damage, so maybe that could be cut off to be transferred.

   The hair in question was still attached to the person. and therefore touching the hair was touching the person. Hair and fingernails are living parts of your body, not superfluous inanimate accessories.

[Drashna]

+1 would be reasonable if it were something easily obtainable. But Tsunami has a point. You don't just make it.  It's the time part that reduces the value of it.  

True Love *is* exceptionally rare. And it takes a good deal of time for the feelings required for it to actually develop. Not to mention, a certain amount of maturity is required for it. Those teenagers, yeah, that's not love. 99.9999% sure that it's not, despite what said teenagers say/feel.  Though in a few years it *might* be.

Because it can take *years* to develop the connection that would be counted as true love, and that it takes a relationship to build up to it, The Catch is +0.  If you're character starts a session completely single, (s)he is not going to fall deeply in love with another character and that said character isn't going to fall deeply in love with the PC. Not immediately. Love at first sight? That's called Lust at first sight. I wouldn't say it's unobtainable, but its certainly not easily obtainable.

As for the other clans of the White Court: Hope and Faith. I'd say those are even more exceptionally rare than Love.

[Belial666]

A few thoughts on the subject;

1) True Love, to be the White Court catch, needs to be from both sides. Not someone truly loving somebody else but two people truly loving eachother. If true love is as rare as true magic, say 1 person in 10.000, true love that is returned would actually be as rare as 1 couple in 50.000.000.  (naturally, true love is not as rare to begin with so true love in couples would be somewhat more than 5 couples in North America).

2) Such love has to be "consumated" AND confirmed to funcion as the catch; Justine only functioned as a catch after nearly sacrificing herself for Thomas - they both have had sex before and they both loved eachother but it wasn't a catch. Though not confirmed in the books, I believe Harry and Suzan's love was confirmed as True after Harry was willing to sacrifice everything for her, even in the face of a war with the Red Court.

3) It is very hard to weaponize true love. Items can be blessed for Faith, silver can be fashioned to bullets, fire and other elements can be replicated by magic and technology and so forth. True Love cannot become an actual weapon. Yes, a ring or personal item might cause pain but wound not burn the target outright as the actual person's touch would and said items have to be important in said relationship (i.e. a wedding ring or a favorite gift not any ring or locket) and said lover selling or giving them would automatically mean they aren't important enough.

4) It is impossible to recognize someone as White Court vampire before they use their powers. So you can't research it in advance.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Also, at one point it is mentioned that True love has to also be between equals. The love between a parent and a child for example, can never count.

[Drashna]

lol. Could you imagine the guy that went around, throwing "artifacts" of True Love around?  Talk about painting a bull's eye on your back for the White Court!

[Belial666]

Also remember that the White Court are one of the few supernaturals often using the Catch for mortals. Let's see you trying to whack Lara Raith with a wedding ring while she is shooting at you with her double automatics. 



PS: Clothing aside, Lara Raith is physically described as very much like Lara Croft, is she not?

[Drashna]

No, I never saw that correlation.   And I'd say the clothing is fairly close, if not whiter that normal.

And nobody is in love with Lara Croft. In lust with, absolutely.  

[babel2uk]

It is very hard to weaponize true love.

Lol 

Weaponised True Love. Now I'm envisioning a bunch of roses with a countdown clock hidden in a White Court club.

That and the Cupids from an old series called SheWolf of London - who were guys in suits and shades with little hand held crossbows.

[tymire]

Would agree, Lara Croft /= Lara Raith.  Croft's ummm "assets" are much more pronounced, and Raith is more sleek/cat like.

That would be a great concept for a character... A bow wielding Emissary of Cupid  .  Lol, however doubt that it would fall under true love.