They Went off The Deep End... and might come back

[Kaldra]

to list the powers he took up super str spd tough recov hellfire then he pimped out a anlternate form

[luminos]

oh yikes.   Well yeah, thats pretty much making the choice to become an NPC.  Have a bittersweet farewell ceremony for the character, get him to introduce his new character, and revel in evil GM glee at the potential to bring in his old character in later on as a denarian antagonist.

[Kaldra]

the evil gm glee came after the true believer made a heartfelt prayer for assistance calling upon all that was good in the world to help save those in need, to send forth a emisarry to save those who have saved so many and was answered by Greg stepping out of the shadows saying "And save them i shall"

[ralexs1991]

the evil gm glee came after the true believer made a heartfelt prayer for assistance calling upon all that was good in the world to help save those in need, to send forth a emisarry to save those who have saved so many and was answered by Greg stepping out of the shadows saying "And save them i shall"

that's just super BA 

[MyNinjaH8sU]

the evil gm glee came after the true believer made a heartfelt prayer for assistance calling upon all that was good in the world to help save those in need, to send forth a emisarry to save those who have saved so many and was answered by Greg stepping out of the shadows saying "And save them i shall"

*slow clap* Bravo, sir. Bravo.

[Morfedel]

Remember, Michael (i think it was him) said.there is only one way to get rid of a fallen angel shadow: willingly give up the coin.

So, if he willingly gave up he coin, in theory he shouldn't have a shadow anymore.

[Belial666]

Only, he could not do that. With negative refresh, he gets no fate points. No way to overcome compels.

[Tbora]

I'd argue that that a Knight of the Cross could engage a Denarian in a Social Conflict urging them to give up the coin, with take out as being forced to give it up, rendering them positive refresh PC's again.

[MyNinjaH8sU]

Possibly, but I'd say they could always concede and run. They'd have to stick around to be taken out.

[Tbora]

it would only be able to after a physical conflict severe enough to surround the denarian.

[Becq]

Well, either you need to write the character off as an NPC, or you need to come up with an alternative that does not trivialize the EXTREMELY SERIOUS choice the character made to accept the help of a Fallen Angel.  The first option is, of course, a lot easier than the second.

Even if you tried the second option, here's the minimum situation:
* You work out the total refresh worth of powers accepted.  That's your starting Debt.  (Looks like over twenty!)  Add in some for any bonuses he got from Hellfire use.
* Reduce the powers back down to the point at which he has 1 net refresh, and retcon the others to be 'loaner' powers.
* Alter one of his Aspects to a Fallen Shadow aspect.

Then continue playing.  Make the Debt painful (which shouldn't be too difficult, since he'll have little Fate).  Don't allow him to simply drop the coin, because he wants and needs that coin!  The only way he should be able to free himself is to somehow burn through (in non-trivial ways) all of that Debt.  And in the meantime, the FA is going to be using those compels to try to put him into situations in which he'll get even more debt back due to loaned power to get him out of the situation.

The odds should be against him.  If he fails, try to come up with a suitably epic exit into NPChood.  But if he somehow manages to pull himself out, there should be reason to be proud of the accomplishment -- not just "Well, I lost a social challenge against the Knight, so he convinced me to drop the coin!"

[luminos]

okay, wow, I really like Becq's idea.  That sounds like something you should pitch for your player to see if they are interested in that approach. 

[Kaldra]

as do i, now time for some math. argh blast you becq i get enough of this in my major >.>

[Becq]

as do i, now time for some math. argh blast you becq i get enough of this in my major >.>

There's not really much math, just add up the powers used, and done.

By the way, you might want to consider charging debt for the use of permanent demonic powers, too.  I'm not sure how that balance would work out.  But if you only pay two debt to get the Inhuman Strength permanently, and can use it forever 'for free', then there's much less reason to want a temporary power (which would cost the same two debt, but go away.  I'm thinking one of the following options:

1) If you use any demonic powers in a scene, you get a point of debt (total).
2) If you use any demonic powers in a scene, you make a discipline or conviction roll (kind of like for hunger); if you fail you get a point of debt
3) If you use any demonic powers between milestones, you get a point of debt.

Any temporary powers don't count toward this, since you already paid for them (and will pay again if you want to use them later).  The main point here is that if the character is really trying for that road of redemption, he not only needs to atone (by burning off the debt in a way that doesn't corrupt them utterly) but he also has to obstain from using his demonic powers, as well.  And meanwhile, the FA will be goading him on, telling him that he and his friends wouldn't be suffering so much hardship if only he'd accept a little help...

If you end up using any or all of the mechanics I've suggested, I'd love to hear feedback as to how it worked out and whether or not it 'felt' right. 

[blues.soldier]

I still think, especially with the play you've already done, that actually removing the PC from play is the best idea. Otherwise, you're going against the spirit of the world, IMO.

However, if you want to go the "still a playable character" route, hacking the Hunger track to represent his temptation to use the power of the Coin is a good way to go.