Aspect/declarations and tags on items question

[Ranma1558]

Just hit me the other day while GMing, but if an item has an aspect on it (in this case a scope on a rifle) does that mean you get a free tag on it? Is it only 1 free tag or a free tag per scene? per session? It strikes the upgrade of gear should be helpful and meaningful and you shouldn't be rushing out to buy a new scope once the current one's tag is used up.

[Papa Gruff]

This is a question that I have pondered some myself, as my primary PC is a gun expert too. Weapon accessory is a tricky thing. I concur in your opinion that it should give you an edge in some way, since it is clearly its purpose.

In the case of a scope on a rifle or a custom stock I'd allow a declaration or assessment to gain a free tag once per scene only in combination with an ambush (YW 142). In my opinion that is the only situation in witch a scope on a rifle will do you any good.

Generally it's problematic to give mundane items long term aspects of their own, as discussed in countless threads on this board. The reasons are obvious. In most situations gun or weapon modifications should probably give an edge other then a free tag or just be flavor. A laser sight for example could just make a Weapon:2 pistol into a Weapon:3, effectively making the gun better in every situation. A custom made grip could do the same. The effects of these customizations shouldn't stack. A finely made or custom made weapon will only ever by a finely made tool for killing. Aspects on weapons are slippery slopes to overpowerednes.

[Tsunami]

Gear is mostly relevant when it has negative properties. Though even then, the negeative properties, i.e. Aspects, only take effect if the GM compels them. So, since negative aspects only take effect when you get a fate point for them, it's fitting to only have positive ones take effect when you pay a Fate point.

In case of the scope, make mounting the scope to the rifle a maneuver, then you get a tag from it.
You'd only be using a scope in a situation where there's time to do maneuvers anyways, like in preparation for an Ambush maybe, so it actually fits the use of one quite well.

Edit: Note to self, stop leaving the PC in the middle of typing replies...

[Papa Gruff]

Edit: Note to self, stop leaving the PC in the middle of typing replies...

It's nice to be on the same page with you for once buddy

[Becq]

With regards to free tags, you only get them if you discover or create the Aspect, and then only if you make use of the free tag in a farely short period of time.

With stuff like sniper rifles, of course, you also have the option of performing maneuvers to get free-tagable Aspects.  "Ideal sniping position", "In my sights", "Careful aim", etc.

[WillH]

When considering aspects you shouldn't be asking if a scope makes you shoot better. You should be asking if having a scope is important to the story.

[noclue]

It strikes the upgrade of gear should be helpful and meaningful and you shouldn't be rushing out to buy a new scope once the current one's tag is used up.

Could you just make it operate like a stunt that gives an additional +1 to any aspects generated by aiming?

[crusher_bob]

If having cool gear is going to be a characters 'thing' then they should probably have a character aspect related to having cool gear which they can then invoke to get bonuses.

Otherwise, the game mechanics are written to keep the focus on the characters, not the stuff they are carrying.  That's why the characters don't tend to have that much stuff.

[toturi]

When considering aspects you shouldn't be asking if a scope makes you shoot better. You should be asking if having a scope is important to the story.

Or you could be asking if not being to make a shot because you don't have a scope rains on your parade.

[noclue]

Or you could be asking if not being to make a shot because you don't have a scope rains on your parade.

Will's talking about aspects. I can have a laser scope on my rifle without making it an aspect. Then it's just a scope. If I make it an aspect it's important.

[babel2uk]

I think the point here is that having a scope add a bonus to your shot just because it's a scope would be a situational modifier. Something that doesn't exist in the Fate system. House-rule it by all means. Fate is all about aspects as far as that sort of thing is concerned. Frankly my view is that characters shouldn't be getting bonuses based on equipment without paying for it either with Refresh to make it a stunt or by invoking an aspect. I agree with Tsunami and Papa Gruff here - if you want something more situation based rather than a character aspect use a manouever or declaration to mount the sight and get a free tag. If your sight has extras like low light or Infra-Red then it just means that the GM can't compel scene aspects that would be negated by those things.

[noclue]

Frankly my view is that characters shouldn't be getting bonuses based on equipment without paying for it either with Refresh to make it a stunt or by invoking an aspect.

This. Definitely.

[ColinJ]

Maybe if you have a scope on the gun and you want that to matter more than color just bump the stress it cause up by 1 since the gun is more effective or something.

Edit - which I just realized was clearly said in the second post if I had read it closer... so yeah.

- Colin

[Ranma1558]

Thanks for the replies, I'm thinking of going with a combination of the suggestions, the act of using the scope is maneuver with two free tags (roughly making this a declaration and maneuver in one, but only allowing one fate point to be spent later) but of course using it as a negative once a scope has become more a problem then a help (once the monsters get up in your face). Other gear might do the same.

[toturi]

Frankly my view is that characters shouldn't be getting bonuses based on equipment without paying for it either with Refresh to make it a stunt or by invoking an aspect.

Alright, then a person with a gun should not get bonuses to his Weapon due to his having a gun without paying for it with Refresh or invoking an Aspect.